WaPo: 2 Arrested For Assault Of Capitol Police Officer Who Later Died After Jan. 6 Attack | Talking Points Memo

[txlawyer]

@lastroth

Any chance running amok is considered mayhem?

Quote probably, but mayhem alone doesn’t establish malice aforethought or causation.

[lastroth]

@castor_troy

There are bears in the region, so always possible a couple snuck in and the good folks were just trying to save the cops from the bears that were on the terrace.

Are you throwing shade on the Berenstain Bears?

Momma and Poppa Bear where just trying get Brother out of the rowdy crowd he fell into. And it’s all because of

[steviedee111]

@dr_coyote

Also worth recalling that if you’re African American (especially if male), your life is literally at risk in every interaction with a cop, in ways that Anglos like myself can’t even fathom.

A great many of the deaths at the hands of police I see on film, or read about, tell of people that are detained putting up a violent struggle, or otherwise being combative and/or uncooperative to the point they’re practically screaming “Bring it on, copper, you better leave me alone or there’s going to be trouble!” If I recall police were simply trying to put George Floyd in the back of a cruiser when he became combative, and it all went downhill from there. Yes, being white I can’t really imagine the bullshit all authority figures pull on black people. A lot of it is criminal. But if a cop stops me and says get out of your car, and sit in the back of my cruiser, that’s what the hell I’m going to do. And if he puts his hands on me to guide me to that backseat and I wheel around and start arguing and swearing and struggling, well, I guess maybe I sorta asked for whatever trouble follows.

[zenicetus]

@txlawyer

And more to the point, neither the US Code nor the DC Code have felony murder statutes. Both jurisdictions require “malice aforethought” for any type of murder conviction, regardless of the circumstances of the crime.

So here’s a IANAL question: The perps were obviously intending to harm and incapacitate the police officer, even if they didn’t think the bear spray would kill him. That sure sounds like “malice aforethought” to me. Is that enough to hang a murder charge on? Or does it require something stronger like “intent to kill?”

[rockitttla]

Any lawyer who can’t get a FMR conviction for killers of a cop -during an insurrection intended to terrorize the congress to change election results, that was broadcast live- should get a new job.

[tena]

Is it not still the law that it adds to the sentence in Texas if you murder someone during the commission of a felony? It was in the 80s and 90s.

[jkrogman]

But but they were hunting for bears …

[jkrogman]

@steviedee111

A great many of the deaths at the hands of police I see on film, or read about, tell of people that are detained putting up a violent struggle

This is not true in many cases.

[emiliano4]

This story is a story. When singular becomes more and more and more part of a plural comprising of hundreds of people, then you have something to worry about.

We’re already very much past that point.

Nobody is in the least bit surprised at the appearance of this story…nor at the Houdini-esque contortions of the guilty…

Ain’t that right, Josh?

[21zna9]

@schmed

The true irony? Sicknick was a Trumper.

Trumpanzie Logic states…

He died in service of the larger goal of taking back the country from those who “hate America”, or something like that.

[pluckyinky]

@castor_troy

Fair point. But that also can be read as an indication that it’s not clearcut linked to bear spray, as that would likely have been announced. We have cause of death for all the others who died, including the two suicides following it.

The suicides are related, obviously, but they didn’t occur during the commission of a crime. The others who died, one of which was caught on camera, were insurrectionists and in some cases it may be impossible to determine who participated in their deaths. Somebody beat Sicknick over the head with a fire extinguisher or something else. I’m assuming the bear spray was used to stun/distract him and wasn’t the direct cause of death, but would be akin to pulling a hood over someone’s head so they couldn’t see while another person beat them to death.

[lastroth]

You’re leaving out the part where the police got him out of the cruiser, sat him down on the sidewalk, he was still in handcuffs, and the first officers were talking to him calmly. I’m not sure when Chauvin showed up, but that’s when the shit hit the fan.

[txlawyer]

@zenicetus

The perps were obviously intending to harm and incapacitate the police officer, even if they didn’t think the bear spray would kill him. That sure sounds like “malice aforethought” to me. Is that enough to hang a murder charge on?

I’m not diving into the details of federal and DC case law defining “malice aforethought,” but the term generically means (1) intent to kill, (2) intent to inflict grievous bodily harm, (3) reckless indifference to human life, or (4) intent to commit a felony. There is zero basis to think they intended to kill, inflict grievous bodily harm, or acted with reckless indifference. And maybe pepper-spraying the cops is a felony, but it probably shouldn’t be.

[jkrogman]

@steviedee111

A great many of the deaths at the hands of police I see on film, or read about, tell of people that are detained putting up a violent struggle

“Since 2015, police have fatally shot nearly 250 women.”

Nearly 250 women have been fatally shot by police since 2015

Breonna Taylor is just one of them.

I’m disappointed that you posted a falsehood.

[lastroth]

@jkrogman

But but they were hunting for bears …

We're Going on a Bear Hunt | Popular Song for Preschoolers | The Kiboomers

[txlawyer]

@tena

Is it not still the law that it adds to the sentence in Texas if you murder someone during the commission of a felony?

I don’t know whether it’s a sentencing enhancement, but the Texas Penal Code still retains its codified felony murder rule.

[tena]

I didn’t think it had been changed.

[jkrogman]

@txlawyer

There is zero basis to think they intended to kill, inflict grievous bodily harm, or acted with reckless indifference.

That’s just not true. Spraying an officer with bear spray is reckless at best.

[pluckyinky]

@schmed

Sicknick was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher , according to two law enforcement officials who spoke to the Associated Press.

Thank you! I was starting to think I was losing it because I remembered hearing repeatedly that he’d been hit over the head with a fire extinguisher. The only way they’d know that is if Sicknick was able to tell someone before he collapsed, other officers saw him being assaulted, or there is video of the assault. Fire extinguisher is pretty specific, so it had to come from somewhere.

[ronbyers]

The very first element of the DC involuntary manslaughter law is “the Defendant caused death.” Without the cause of death the best they can do is prove assault.

Yes DC does have involuntary manslaughter and it isn’t just limited to drunk drivers. They simply use a drunk driver case as an example.