VA AG To Investigate Police Pepper Spraying A Black Army Medic During Traffic Stop

[lastroth]

Just got done reading the comments in WaPo with the usual criticism of the Lt. failing to comply. So many back and forth comments on who do you comply with the officer insisting you get out of the vehicle vs. the officer yelling keep your hands in sight.

Comments on the reporting that Windsor, VA only has 7 police officers, which includes the chief and with a department that small how do officer get continuing training.
One commenter posted that his relatives live in St. Louis County, MO, Michael Brown, and small municipalities that have their own police forces here. I thought good this guy is pointing out how places with small PDs constantly ticket residents, or people driving through the town, all because that’s how the PD makes it money. I wonder if that was the case, and will the VA AG figure out that this is what causes a lot problems.

[garrybee]

Sy Smith (Syberspace)

[txlawyer]

@becca656

Someone wrote on another thread: the policewoman IS a trainer for her department. That, honestly, makes the ‘mistake’ even worse.

To be clear, it is a very serious and awful mistake, which has happened repeatedly in circumstances where the cop has zero reason to discharge a firearm and good reason to fire a taser. Indeed, it’s a mistake so unreasonable that the District Attorney ought to prosecute her for second degree manslaughter.

[lastroth]

OK ya’ll arguing over training, mistaking gun for taser, and time on the force. I posted yesterday the old white guy who was a donor to the sheriff’s election campaigns that was allowed to be a reserve officer shooting and killing a black suspect who was pinned down by regular officers. He mistook his gun for his taser.
And then last night they mentioned other cases, one in KS by a rookie, and one in PA by another regular police officer. So it seems to be a rare occurrence, but a deadly mistake. So do we just chalk these deaths up as sacrifices to the US gun culture?

[lastroth]

I think you need to #3,
the ratcheting up guns in a lot of people’s hands, and the fire power of said weapons which then the police have to contend with.

I think of it as our own internal arms race, but without the nukes.
Thanks Wayne and the NRA.

[lastroth]

@txlawyer

@opaquesquid

After years on the force, reaching for the appropriate weapon should be ingrained and instinctual.

Counterpoint: Cops go years without drawing either weapon.

But if the regular firearms training was being done, then the weight and feel of one’s gun in one’s hand should be familiar.

[txlawyer]

@lastroth

So do we just chalk these deaths up as sacrifices to the US gun culture?

No, there are clearly issues with both the taser mistake and policing writ large. I would be 100% fine with disarming cops. But the video here does not translate into any intent on the part of this particular cop to kill the kid in the car, even though the mistake is grievous enough to support a manslaughter charge.

[lastroth]

We’ve had this argument yesterday. Women don’t, women are told to not pull over on dark road, street, or even highway. Call 911 to check that there is a police officer in your area trying to pull someone over, turn on your dome light, turn on your blinker, and drive slowly to a well lite place.
Part of this is from guys who can buy the fake police lights use them to get women alone.
Part of this is from the accidents, mostly to highway patrol officers, that get hit at traffic stops from traffic coming from behind them.
And finally part of this is because your dash cam / phone camera works better in a well lit place.

[becca656]

I maintain it’ll be a wrongful death suit filed by the family against the department. Not more than that. The idea that Daunte was running from the scene (or attempting to) is enough for many that he deserved what he got.

I don’t agree with it; I hope they do prosecute the officer, but given the environment we’re in now, where the deceased is already being vilified in the media (see Fox News) as having gotten what he deserved, I don’t think anything more than a wrongful death civil suit will take place.

[lastroth]

Because the video wasn’t released to the public by the Lt’s lawyer?
I do wonder if the chief even knew what had gone down in the gas station parking lot in Dec. With a force of 7, that includes the chief who monitors the body cams?

[steviedee111]

@txlawyer

But the video here does not translate into any intent on the part of this particular cop to kill the kid in the car, even though the mistake is griecous enough to support a manslaughter charge.

Tasers often have little to no effect on a person. Multiple factors can blunt their effectiveness, including clothing, drugs in the system of the person you’re attempting to detain, malfunctions, etc. From what I saw once back in the car the young man seemed to be frantically moving about in the seat, leaning over, reaching or pawing at unknown items. He theoretically could have had a gun within reach. I sympathize with officers forced to make split second, life or death decisions. They don’t want to end their shift zipped up in a body bag.

Here’s a novel idea. If you’re detained by the police do WTF you’re told. Sort out the rightness or wrongness of it later. I’m betting in the overwhelming number of cases you make it through the experience alive and mostly unscathed.

[sandyh]

Conservatives never meant for the Negros they forced through poverty to fight their wars against other minorities around the world to be given the same respect as white recruits.

[lastroth]

I don’t want to argue the law, I just see that state legislatures keep lifting gun restrictions. And back in the day when this started police chiefs, and sheriffs would actively voice their opposition to loosening any regulations on fire arms.
Now over the years the weapons have become easier to use, and more deadly. We lose more police officers in the line of duty as the restrictions are lifted. So are we also seeing an increase in civilian deaths that correlates with the loosening of restrictions?

[arrendis]

@tacoma

why are white men so afraid of black men?

Some of it’s the expected ‘I’m better than you’ indoctrination, but there’s another, more insidious element…

For a lot of years, TV and film contributed—cop shows and movies ended up with a statistically… let’s say ‘elevated’ number of incidents where ‘the one black guy we put in this is the bad guy’ or where black men were shown overwhelmingly as gang members, etc. Now, obviously, in some cases, there’s an appropriate use of this. Colors, for example… it’s hard to make a movie about South-Central Los Angeles gangs without, you know, having gangs in it.

But most of it was just lazy, bigoted writing/casting. Not all of it was even intentional, just subconscious biases influencing decisions that then helped cement those biases etc etc. But we ended up with a media landscape, by the late 80s, that trained people—not just white people—to be afraid of black men. When they did studies on it, even black men and women showed higher levels of mistrust of black faces they didn’t know. It was… honestly, horrifying and heartbreaking to learn about.

There’s been conscious effort to avoid that, ever since, and hopefully we’re not programming our population to be racists that way anymore, but… yeah. Part of the answer to ‘why are white men so afraid of black men?’ is ‘because they were programmed to be… and not the way you expect’.

[steviedee111]

@lastroth

Now over the years the weapons have become easier to use, and more deadly.

There is approximately one gun for every human drawing a breath in this country. No amount of laws are going to claw us back to sanity. Authorities could literally melt down 150 million weapons and there would be 180 million left out there to cause more mayhem and death. I think we’ll live with senseless gun violence for generations to come, no matter what government and citizens decide to do about it.

[arrendis]

@steviedee111

There is approximately one gun for every human drawing a breath in this country.

No… we’re almost a full 20% over that mark. At 70 million more guns than people, we’re rapidly losing any right to call the numbers approximately that low.

[castor_troy]

Guns are people, too.

[steviedee111]

@arrendis

No… we’re almost a full 20% over that mark.

[jeffgee1]

One of the more ridiculous comments I read defending Gutierriez was that he couldn’t possibly be racist because he is of Mexican heritage and is therefore Black.

[arrendis]

Only corporate guns, my friend.

And while their monetary contributions are welcome, they better not express any opinions on voter laws! Money is speech, dammit, speech ain’t.