““I think the case we have, if presented to a jury, would be a guilty verdict in about three minutes flat,” he added.”
And 2 minutes and 30 seconds of that 3 minutes is allowing the observers in the court room to be seated.
I do. I was in Florida and “side lining” Bill had squat to do with what went on down here. That’s a canard anyway. Al Gore was not a coattails guy and Bill’s coat tails were a very bad fit for him no matter what went on in the Oval Office. Gore was a progressive. Clinton was a formula DLC guy. Same same for Joe Biden. He’s not “sidelining” Obama he’s being his own man. Neither Gore nor Biden have condemned their previous bosses.
I can’t believe how quick Democrats are to adopt narratives and canards fed to them by the MSM. That MSM ruthlessly beat up Al Gore for what we now know to be falsehoods. “Al Gore said he invented the Internet”, “Al Gore said he was the inspiration for Love Story” and “Al Gore said he discovered Love Canal” saturated the front page of the NYT and WaPo before the election. After it “hanging chads” and the Brooks Brothers riot Jeb Bush all to end with a SCOTUS declaration that the man who won lost. Lost because of lie upon lie thrown at him. And the victor: Lied us into a war.
“Al Gore sidelined Clinton” is a strained excuse to cover for the fact that Bush won. Just like “Hillary was a flawed candidate” is one to cover a Trump win. Both won by extraordinarily un-American methods. Lets not repeat the cover stories.
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I think the problem with your comparison is the fact that, in this case, Trump is obviously guilty whereas Clinton clearly had nothing to do with Benghazi. If the objective is to demonstrate obvious guilt, do it quickly and keep it simple. If the objective is to imply guilt where none really exits, then use endless investigations, subterfuge and vague implications with no real facts.
Different objectives require different approaches.
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I think you mean not. I’m all for bot-repeating the truth.
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In hindsight Benghazi was a great tool for the republicans. Not only did it smear Clinton, but it also made these investigations look like scams to independent voters. Now when a real problem occurs, Republicans just shout partisanship and many people believe them.
I think the problem with drawing it out is simple. If Congress is going to impeach him for harming the country, he needs to be removed ASAP. Waiting for 2-4 months more just proves the point that it is political. Democrats need to be able to say that it was done because he is a danger to this country.
If the senate acquits, then everyone who votes to acquit needs to be put in the same boat with the conspirators of this scheme.
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I believe that there is a gigantic shoe (evidence) held on a tiny string in the hands of Sp. Pelosi, Reps Schiff and Nadler. They have McConnell in a please proceed, guhvna, position. Schiff played Nunes like a fiddle. There is more where that came from. I think it’s tax documents - that the House has had some documents for months.
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The Senate will bury this. There will be no impeachment cases going forward for the next year unless the Dems decide to launch a second one. If you don’t think the Rs and the media can make the Senate Impeachment acquittal old news and forgotten by 2020 election, you haven’t been paying attention.
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The Ukraine Extortion Racket and obstruction of Congress are gimmees but it leaves a bad taste if that is ALL they put there. I understand the argument for a narrow approach but there are too many other things that should be covered too. Also, IF that is the only thing, you have to include Mueller Report stuff in some fashion if only to show a pattern.
ETA: Also, all the media coverage tends to be focused on the flavor of the moment. You have people on Chris Hayes’ show, for example, to talk about the impeachment process and the guy doesn’t ask them about other stuff. It’s annoying.
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Hi! To find out what I can do, say @discobot display help.
Remember, a jury of #45’s peers would all be grifters, con men persons, and idiot liars.
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Meanwhile this:
Basically, Biden thinks that GOP is every bit as OK as the Dems and that it would be a bad thing if Ds “clobbered” Rs electorally.
And we wonder why Ds keep losing elections to a party that has nothing to offer.
Biden’s not wrong in what he’s saying…we really do need to have multiple voices in our representation, one voice eventually leads to a power structure that keeps that voice in power even if it stops representing all the people (and in some Republican led states that’s how it already is). But, he’s ignoring the fact that right now the Republican party has become a corrupt voice, one that is willing to cheat and go against the Constitution if that is what it takes to keep power. That is something that should not be tolerated in our nation, under any circumstances.
He would have been better off saying that people who consider themselves conservative don’t need to join the Democratic party or give up their conservative ways, but they do need to find it in themselves to recognize the danger that the current Republican party represents to our nation. They need to bring the party back (or replace it entirely) to one that represents all people while espousing the conservative viewpoint, that governs based on facts, and that sees the Democrats not as “the enemy”, but as “the loyal opposition”. That’s more of the right spirit, that it’s fine to be a conservative but no American can support what’s happening right now.
There really are Republicans who see Trump has bad, but don’t see voting for the Democrats as a better option. They are wrong about that, of course, and if they continue they risk becoming as irrelevant to the process as Republicans are now here in CA, where Democrats control basically the entire state government…so far, that is working out well, with little crazy liberal stuff happening and mostly good governance and ethical leadership. There are some less liberal Democrats helping to keep things balanced, and it’s working despite all the BS you hear from Republicans about CA.
That’s the model for the nation if Republicans continue as they have been, and the current party deserves that (and worse). It would be better if the conservatives decided to turn against the current course of their politics, because the nation is going to have a lot of trouble progressing with a large fraction of Americans who believe their own facts and refuse to join the march to the future. Biden is hoping that he can turn them around and “save” them from themselves…I’m not so sanguine about that, I think they need to remake their politics and deserve to lose all power until they manage to become rational again.
That’s the path. Its always been the path. Make them acquit and hold them accountable on the campaign trail.
Because when we do that, then we can bring up everything else on the campaign trail. Those discussions don’t get restricted to just Ukraine.
The vote is more than likely going to cost them the Senate. Arizona, Colorado, 2 seats in Georgia, Iowa, Maine and North Carolina are all the line right now. Possibly even Montana.
Personally, I think there is some merit to waiting until March, so the filing deadlines are hit, and republican Senators will know if they have to cater to a right wing primary attack or worry about dealing with a General election, but its probably not that big of deal in practical terms. Senate campaigns are big and expensive; a primary opponent jumping in to the game in January, isn’t going to be a huge threat against a well funded incumbent.
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That’s not the Democratic party’s concern, however. Indeed, the republican party would gleefully do everything they could to eliminate the Democratic party by any means possible if they could.
This is an asymmetrical argument. And we don’t need to play that game with them. Worry about winning elections and governing. Let the opposition figure out how they respond to that.
Because this is the fundamental purpose of politics…governing. Right now (and for a much too long of a time) the republicans have completely abdicated that responsibility. For example, pushing forward to remove ACA with absolutely zero plans to replace it, its a complete and utter abdication of governing. Running up huge deficits simply to try and buy votes with tax cuts is another example. And yes, even the longer term “strategy” to force Dems to reduce government by running up those deficits is yet another example.
That’s all on them. Democrats need to run the table everywhere we can, and continue to grow that map. And govern with the responsibility that the voters give us.
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Yes, Virginia, the motherfucker will be impeached.
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a guilty verdict in about three minutes flat
Why dawdle?
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This is a Pollyanna approach with the current Republican Party.
I personally don’t like that I am at the point where I say – at least nationally and probably in a lot of states – the Republican Party is a failed party. A loyal opposition is important.
But, just rooting for a second party is not enough. It has to be credible. The Republican Party now isn’t credible. I still wouldn’t want the damn Democratic candidate for POTUS, the assumed head of the national party, in effect to root for Republicans to win a lot. He’s not a damn independent. Why not just just waive off the Senate totally, so we will have a balance in Congress to balance off the House and presidency?
Biden is basically being the “the basic problem is Trump” candidate when the problem is much deeper. His message might have worked back in the day. Now, it aids and abets the enemy of democracy. With Rep. Hurd types against impeachment, the current batch will not accept the principled Republican message unless being hurt at the ballot box forces them to do so.
Yes! Punch it!
Omitting the words “I think”, this sentence should become the talking point of every Dem in the House, and on the campaign trail.
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A couple of weeks ago, I read a tweet from Laurence Tribe who was re-tweeting John Dean. **
He concurred with Dean’s idea that the House could vote on Articles of Impeachment (all while continuing any needed investigations which could perhaps generate more AOI) and not send them to the Senate right away.
The House controls when the Articles are sent up to the Senate for trial.
Withholding or delaying them would allow the dark clouds of the AOIs to linger in public (like Barr did when he gave his misleading summary of the Meuller Report before giving the media and public access to the truth) and just let it stew in the media for awhile.
**I am not a lawyer and I was unsuccessful looking through both twitter feeds for the exact comment.
ETA: It’s not that they were saying this should be done, they were saying it was an option the House had.
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When you have the advantage, you press it. That the House is moving this swiftly on drafting impeachment articles is the best antidote to Trumpian disinformation and a compliant media that are in Trump’s pocket and are quite reluctant to deal directly with Trump’s unfitness for office, his criminal behavior, and the numerous ways he has acted against American interests and is in effect the traitor that the Founders imagined and feared when they wrote the Constitution over 230 years ago.
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