This story first appeared at Stateline.
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1486493
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1486493
Love it. Soak them (as it wereâŚ).
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âThe science isnât proven,â said Mandi Risko, a spokesperson for Energy In Depth, a research and public outreach project of the Independent Petroleum Association of America, a trade group."
Youâre playing defense now. And your defense is old and worn out. Just a matter of time.
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Hoist on their own derrick as it were.
Itâs a workaround but this is an emergency and it works. Carbon extraction industries still have it too easy and it needs to get harder, faster.
ETA: Science is never really proven in any case, it relies on the preponderance of evidence and statistical significance; i.e., dispositive logic is not the standard in science but therein lies a source of conflict since that is the logic the legal domain typically requires.
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The key needed when prodding big companies to :do the right thing" is to have a target painted on their profits.
Excellent!!!
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Meanwhile, in Wisconsin
The bill contained the $125 million for cleaning up PFAS, however the GQP limited (eliminated) the DNRâs ability to hold the polluters accountable and recover remediation costs.
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OT Photo is Vermontâs state capital, Montpelier, during last summerâs floods.
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I believe that some of the areas that flood also have to step up. For example, Montpelier, VT lies on a flood plain. One of the stateâs largest rivers runs right through the middle of town. It has flooded many times due to ice jams in the river, excessive run-off from mid-winter thaws, and heavy rains such as last summer. In my mind, the city should be moved uphill away from the river and the buildings on the floodplain should be removed. Probably not going to happen and the river will keep flooding every five or ten years.
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With the emissions due to oil production in Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, China, and Russia off limits for the fund, it will limit how much US companies can be tapped.
Iâm also wondering how US car and truck manufacturers escape liability under this idea. Or electric utility companies with fossil fuel power plants. Canât burn the oil and gas without something to burn it in.
I guess itâs better than nothing if it survives the legal challenges, and itâs good public messaging about how we got here.
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Ok, I like where I see this âattribution scienceâ going. Next stop, legislatures and policies enacted/supported by politicians and political parties. And who knows, maybe even consumer choices, in essence a user tax on pollution, which would be in strong conflict with my personal philosophy that regressive taxation ought to be avoided whenever possible. Conundrums!!
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The fossil fuel people have known for decades exactly what their product was doing to the Earth. They even funded fink tanks to spread disinformation, just like the tobacco companies did to prevent regulation. The oil companies even used the same goddamned bunch of liars as the cigarette manufacturers.
The point is the surprise and statements that no one could have seen this coming are disproved by their actions to avoid any regulation that might reduce their profits.
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Meanwhile,
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I donât disagree (and I live in a river-mill town in the North Berkshires, part of the year), but whereâs the money going to come from?
[full disclosureâI live on a hill about 80 feet above the river, and thus have the luxury of treating this question as academic]
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Excellent question. In Vermont, after the floods from Hurricane Irene (2012?) and also last summerâs floods, the state, with help from the Feds, bought out quite a few property owners on flood plains and forbade rebuilding. Other property owners were required to raise their foundations above flood level in order to qualify for financial assistance (three houses on my street fell into that category).
Moving the state capital is a bigger lift but it should ideally be planned for and done at some point. The cost would be enormous, but so is the cost of mucking out and rehabbing stores, offices, restaurants and homes after every flood.
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Good. And while weâre at it, letâs stop handing billions of free money to the fucking oil companies so they can go out and find even more oil. Seriously, what the fuck is that about? Giving a single mother with 2 kids $100 for food is âcreating dependencyâ but handing a $100B company a few extra billion is a great idea? Fuck that.
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The fact that carbon dioxide is opaque to infrared radiation, and can thereby trap heat in the atmosphere was known as far back as the mid-1960âs. I recall the greenhouse effect being discussed at the first Earth Day in 1970.
I canât fault companies like Exxon for producing oil and gasoline, since I have been a willing, though captive, consumer. What I can fault them for is their fraud in promoting climate denialism. They have paid tens, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars to âresearchersâ to write âscientificâ papers to cast doubt on legitimate science and to right wing blowhards to trumpet this bull into the public discussion.
Had the extractors been honest rather than reactionary, we might have been able to address this problem years ago before the âhockey stickâ got jammed up our atmosphere. These corporations have been just as guilty of fraud as the cigarette manufacturers. They should similarly pay for the fraud theyâve committed.
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Damage from Climate Change will be in the Trillions, not Billions, and all the money in the world wonât stop whatâs coming. You canât put a price tag on nature because no amount of money will buy it back once itâs gone.
The ONLY real solution is to get off of fossil fuels. We keep trying to bargain with reality and it wonât work. The airline industry will have to find alternative means of travel that donât require massive amounts of petrol. I canât see a solar powered plane getting very far but something will have to change for air travel to be practical.
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Our knowledge of the damaging effects of CO2 go all the way back to the 1800s. Oil companies knew for decades about CO2, long before the 60s and 70s but they covered up their findings so as not to kill their business.
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I stand corrected as to dates:
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But your stupidity is!
Thatâs always the first thing uttered out of the mouths of these jackals. They depend on public ignorance to keep themselves in business.
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