House Dems, GOP Take Stock As Impeachment Vote Looms

[steviedee111]

Words have power (I am saying this before being inundated by a sandstorm of incoming pessimism)

How about a realistic reaction? Words have power for sentient, open minded, rational, compassionate people. No amount of truth can penetrate the minds of Trump loyalists. None.

[darrtown]

Maybe I am pessimistic at the moment. The Sun doesn’t rise here for another 45 minutes.

[emiliano4]

It’s coming.

[darcy]

How so? The sky’s falling!!

[dougsanders]

Historical judgment still matters to me and many others; that’s how we mark our worlds. For instance, I think Eric Foner is an American treasure, a source of excellence we should be proud of. And, yet, he’s never thrown a touchdown pass or written a shitty, successful TV show.

Your mileage may vary.

[khyber900]

Last night’s hearing was quite good for the Dems because they are moving swiftly and are striking while the iron is hot and public opinion has coalesced around a plurality for impeachment. Impeachment is popular in many of the battlegrounds across the US per Civiqs. This will energize the Dem base, earn the respect of Indies, shape the narrative of 2020 and drive donations, volunteers and turnout. That’s exactly what we want politically. I also think, based on IG Horowitz’s comments yesterday and the activity from the SDNY on Parnas, that the legal system would take a formal impeachment from the House as a cue to press forward more aggressively on the legal front, which will make things quite thorny for Trump and the GOP. Strike now! That’s what Nancy is doing

[kimaanderson]

Maybe Barr. Call it a draw.

[fiftygigs]

I do solemnly swear

Republicans, you gave your word. You gave your word to the American people.

[darrtown]

That never fucking mattered. Their solemn word I mean.

[kimaanderson]

There has got to be more than that. There simply must be. I still cannot fathom how an entire party has so completely and utterly abandoned even a scintilla of principle, or the slightest shred of upholding their constitutional duties. This has to go beyond mere electability…if it were that, at least a few would stand up and say their job is not worth their honor and welfare of the nation. No, I believe that dirty secrets that run in that party must be deep, all-encompassing and wholly and irrevocably compromising to all of them. And those secrets must be kept at all costs.

[mattinpa]

My favorite line in the film “Frequency” is when one of the protagonists was facing a murder charge, the evidence front and center. His friend, a policeman, said to him:

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS?

I am beginning to wonder if most people understand what the articles of Impeachment the House is bringing out really mean.

Interesting question. I start by assuming the average person pays little meaningful attention to much beyond his or her immediate world: kids and job, various pastimes. If you see evidence something else has made an impression, then you can factor it in. I also have a cockamamie theory that it means something if people self-assign themselves to the “nice people” category. People who feel that way won’t use overtly racist terms, or use any but the mildest curses in front of children. There’s more but long story short I think it’s a thing that matters sociologically. And those people are disgusted by Trump. If he came to their houses and carried on like he does they’d say, “Look, there’s no need for that kind of language” and “I think that’s a little uncalled-for,” things like that. Eventually they’d throw him out. That’s where they are and have been for a while.

I think impeachment is a lagging indicator of where the society is right now, because of the base. People in the base have repeatedly told interviewers there’s nothing Trump could do to change their minds. It’s an expression of their sociopolitical stance to support him. If you painted “Support me if you feel things are changing in bad ways for people like you” on the side of a mailbox, people would rabidly support President Mailbox.

So people have pretty much dug in where they already were. I doubt impeachment will change many minds.

[greenman66]

I hope you are correct but it does not seem to be showing up in the polls, at least in an obvious way.

[darcy]

No amount of truth can penetrate the minds of Trump loyalists. None.

Accepting that as fact, let’s move on. Democrats are doing what they have to do. There’s no way to avoid impeaching Trump. His level of criminality and that of his fellow enablers has to be taken on. There’s really no choice. Of course Republicans will vote with Trump as expected.

But then it’s onto 2020, where winning the trifecta will give all good people hope. So let’s control the narrative (most important), beat up Republicans as best we can, and GOTV. We have the advantage as Trump will continue to self-impeach and self-destruct.

[emiliano4]

I am confident that the Trump base will not change.

[greenman66]

My mother, who is 95 and despises Trump, has acquaintances who think Trump is basically on a mission from god and NOTHING will change their minds because the almighty works in ways we mere mortals cannot comprehend.

[brewhousebob]

I think you’re right. They’re not doing it to get re-elected. They’re doing it to stay out of jail. BIG difference. And there is nothing they won’t do to stay out of jail.

[steviedee111]

My mother, who is 95 and despises Trump, has acquaintances who think Trump is basically on a mission from god and NOTHING will change their minds because the almighty works in ways we mere mortals cannot comprehend.

People do not give enough thought to the possibility God is a sociopath.

[mattinpa]

I am confident that the Trump base will not change.

Have you read Hofstadter’s “Paranoid Style”? Today’s historians seem to sneer at it but I think there are a lot of psychological truths there regarding self-reinforcing beliefs and closure to contradictory evidence. We’re living through a society-wide experiment in it. You could open up the FBI counterintelligence files and prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump is a major money launderer, and they’d shrug and say “Ahhh, they all launder money for the Russian mob, don’t be so naive.”

[steviedee111]

You could open up the FBI counterintelligence files and prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump is a major money launderer, and they’d shrug and say “Ahhh, they all launder money for the Russian mob, don’t be so naive.”

[jtx]

Or we could put on the blinders and say there is no grift in politics.