Couple points, if I may. I think “ad hominem” usually involves more than saying you disagree with a general position–it requires that you indicate a particular hominem and personally attack or insult that hominem. Saying people who question the wisdom of immediate impeachment “stand with Trump” might be seen as a fairly severe misrepresentation of their position, which is what a straw man is? The actual position is that impeachment without removal could provoke a backlash of support that would inadvertently reelect a president whose second term could kill off this republic. If it requires mental contortions to think that thought then there’s a lot of damn smart people whose minds are contorted.
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I cannot answer your questions. But I can say that, for a while and as long as Trump is in the WH, he has been and will be managed as though a mental patient has the position of President.
And that appropriate measures must be taken in an ongoing manner to reduce-as much as possible under the restrictions available–the harm he does to our national security.
Mitch McConnell has the ultimate say-so on when (or if) the GOP Senate pulls the plug on Trump.
And that’s where we are.
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God, if You are listening, someday grant me half the self-confidence to opine on my own work that the generic mediocre white man on the internet possesses on any topic.
(I’m not a generic mediocre white man on the internet, I’m a very unique mediocre white man on the internet)
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Haha thought you were someone else for a minute. Anyway yeah. Seriously I wish I had 20 bucks lately for every non-sequitur bashing of the Dems and media here.
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(I’m agreeing with you! Some other people are being very silly.)
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Haha I know but like I edited I expected a reaction and failed to identify my target before firing. Will have to live with that for the rest of my life. : (
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This clip from 2014 Fox and Friends has Trump talking about Obama and impeachment. Start at 1:17 to 3:00 for the meat of it. Essentially, although Trump is more coherent than he is now, it is still a bit convoluted. I think he is saying that the Dems are trying to stop the Repubs from impeaching Obama by saying that they welcome impeachment. The Repubs are falling for the ruse and thinking that if Obama wants it, they shouldn’t do it. Trump goes on to say that, of course, Obama doesn’t want to be impeached (he is actually right about this) The phrase that caught my ear was “he [Obama] doesn’t want it on his permanent record.” How often do you think that Trump heard this growing up? This is a phrase that the nuns used in my grammar school and it worked on me. The idea that he actually is the worst president ever and that his list of impeachable offense will make Andrew Johnson, Nixon and Clinton look like saints will send his NPD into overdrive.
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According to 15 people close to Trump
Bullshit. There are not any people “close to Trump” besides John Barron and Individual-1.
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I would say referring to an argument as “argle-bargle” is an ad hominem.
" Saying people who question the wisdom of immediate impeachment “stand with Trump” might be seen as a fairly severe misrepresentation of their position, which is what a straw man is?"
It’s too generous to say they stand against “immediate impeachment”. Pelosi isn’t saying she stands against “immediate impeachment”. She has never included the qualifier “immediate”. She’s offered numerous tenuous excuses as to why she doesn’t want impeachment.
So, no, saying that she, and others who stand with her, are against impeachment isn’t a “straw man”. A straw man consists of inventing an argument and falsely attributing it. Right? You may dislike the conclusion drawn: that refusal to get behind impeaching Trump at any non-zero pace constitutes “standing with Trump”. But throwing around rhetorical terms like “straw man” willy-nilly isn’t helpful.
"e actual position is that impeachment without removal could provoke a backlash of support that would inadvertently reelect a president whose second term could kill off this republic. "
And this is a position without any logic or historical precedent. It is borne of little more than fear of the unknown.
And, still, if you stand against impeachment, you stand with Trump. Because that’s where he’s standing.
If it requires mental contortions to think that thought then there’s a lot of damn smart people whose minds are contorted.
Argumentum ad populum?
Sorry, but the “lot of damn smart people” don’t have a great recent track record. And they’ve yet to adequately address the question of “Why would an impeachment motivate Republicans if it shows a strong record of lawbreaking more than a reluctance to impeach would deflate Democratic enthusiasm?”
I do more things in my life than chat with beltway insiders all day long, which is what this message board’s function appears to be. I also speak to Republicans. Many of them are convinced Trump is innocent and that Democrats have just created a fog with no substance to it. Which would make them more likely to vote Republican?
a) backing off, thereby validating all of Trump’s defense
b) aggressive, detailed investigations, exposing Trump’s crimes?
I have hard time thinking that the “damn smart” people really think that choice (b) is better for Trump. I think it’s more of a case that Pelosi is not willing to risk her personal fate on an impeachment that she cannot control, since she only views the outcome of the impeachment through the lens of what the Senate would ultimately do. Since she views all matters purely from a vote-counting perspective, she does the vote count in the Senate and thinks it’s not worth doing. She doesn’t have the wider vision to see that the vast majority of Democratic voters are equally capable of doing that calculation themselves, and still think it’s worth doing.
For us it was the Vice Principal that threatened that kind of stuff. tRump was in military school, sent undoubtably because he was an undisciplined, out-of-control, loud-mouthed defiant teenager. Being branded ‘a loser’ is tRump’s biggest fear in life since he spends more time projecting that specific fear of his onto almost everyone around him that he eventually crosses paths with, and towards those that don’t satisfy his over-inflated ego in some way. His parents probably used the word directly or indirectly to berate him when he didn’t live up to their expectations. He also has a problem with legitimacy which impeachment clearly threatens to take away from him once and for all.
He may not end up being removed but the label of being an impeached President will follow him to the grave. I’m with Speaker Pelosi today however. I want his fat ass in prison when he’s booted from office, impeachment or not. However, I also want to see him squirm for the remaining days he has in office and if an impeachment inquiry does that…I’m all for it.
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In the wise words of the last great president; “Please Proceed.”
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Is there a stone tablet on which this engraved? Is it secreted in the Ark of the Republican Covenant, which has been affirmed as true and duly notarized by Jesus?
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To sleep perchance to dream…can we have it arranged that Trump’s cell in solitary confinement is the one closest to the loading dock? The back up beeps of delivery trucks will push him over the edge.
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I have things to do myself besides chat all day, so I’m not going to go through this point by point. At least some of what you say constitutes an argument for your position. But this, which speaks to the crux of the hold-off position—that we don’t want to reelect the fucker—is just an assertion:
I find the arguments for impeachment now less compelling, in large part because they tend to wave away the outcome aspect, than the arguments for a more drawn-out process. But although I tremble at the thought of being accused of ad-homming, let me ask you this: Everyone here hates Trump, is appalled at the damage he’s doing daily to our civic compact, and wants to see him gone from public life as soon as possible. And yet there’s a real controversy here that isn’t based only on mental contortions. (That’s ad hom, bud.) And you’re not persuading too many people. So maybe you should head to the drawing board and work on your own arguments? Just a thought.
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Better yet, let those back-up alarms be Cockholster’s cue to unload the truck. Being as there are no golf courses or golf carts in prisons, I’m sure he’ll appreciate the exercise.
As for pushing him over the edge, while well-behaved inmates can have TVs programming is limited to over-the-air broadcasts, which means no Fox News. Sad.
“No Fox and no Twitter makes Don a very (stark raving) mad boy.”
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His legacy? He needn’t worry. Every dried up waterway. Every blasted crack in the soil of fields that won’t produce on agribusiness holdings due to flood and drought. Every forest tract mowed down to provide pulp for the paper mills required for his court cases to come is a legacy that will leave scars on America.
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Well, the problem is that he can absolutely order all former and current officials not to testify. He can order that no materials be supplied. He can force the Committees to go to court, and to then appeal, and then appeal to the Supreme Court. While all this is going on in the courts, nothing is going on in the House— except for the normal fulminations. I am constantly hearing naive Democrats saying that the Congress would have additional powers to force witnesses and materials if only they formally announced an Impeachment Inquiry. This is totally wrong, because Trump can just absolutely refuse to play. And who is going to force Trump? No one. Not for a long time. Even though I think there would ultimately be a majority at the Supreme Court for issuing an enforcement order, upholding the lower courts, it would never happen during this term in office. And if by some miracle it did, the Senate would acquit Trump in a New York Minute. Trump Vindicated!
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Hey! If an ignorant lazy person can’t tell the government how to do things right, then what’s the electorate for? Now I’m toddling off to the emergency room to see if anyone wants me to perform surgery on them. Good day to you, sir.
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