Discussion: The #BENGHAZI Effect: Clinton's State Record New 2016 Battleground

Not really. But keep telling yourself that.

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hysteria: an uncontrollable outburst of emotion or fear, often characterized by irrationality, laughter, weeping, etc.

True, we definitely need another Republican in the White House. I’m sure there’s some random country that needs to be invaded for no reason whatsoever, and if there’s one thing our country could use right now is another recession, some tax cuts for the rich, and most importantly we need to make sure the gays aren’t happy because then Jesus will be angry. GOP 2016!

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Because every SoS serves at the wish of the President. Their accomplishments are therefore never entirely, or even half way, their own…they belong to the President under which they served.

The position only holds value for someone considering a Presidential run because it bolsters foreign policy cred. I.e. you are head of the State Dept, you meet all the world leaders and are consumed with foreign policy matters. And foreign policy, unlike most domestic policy positions, is much more of an on-going arch that goes beyond a single President.

But you have to go back to 1849 to find a President who used to be a Sec of State (James Buchanan was the last) and back to 1928 to find any Cabinet member who went on to become President.(Hoover, Sec. of Commerce).

I’m relieved that you are able to maintain your fantasies and avoid dealing with reality, which would be a rude shock to what passes for your intellect.

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As always, you’re unintentionally hilarious.

And—again as always—facts and truth disagree with you completely.

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It’s the classic Rove tactic: don’t attack their weaknesses, attack their strengths.

The goal isn’t to actually use Clinton’s tenure as Secretary of State as a tool against her, but to take enough of the shine off of it that she cannot effectively use it to promote herself.

They don’t even have to win the argument about whether or not she was a good S.o.S.; they just have to turn the question into something people can argue about, even if they lose that argument.

I really think you’re failing to give Karl Rove enough credit. Sure, attacking your opponent’s strengths has become Politics 101 now, after Rove had such success with it, but it was a pretty innovative tactic when he began using it. That Obama incorporated it into his 2012 run doesn’t change Rove’s earlier innovation.

And your second paragraph misses what is actually going on in the Rove playbook. He didn’t just attack strengths that aren’t really strengths; he attacked actual strengths. For instance, in one election, his candidate’s opponent had a long, respected record of advocacy for children and involvement in children’s causes, so Rove planted rumors he was a child molester. This episode shows both how the tactic is sleazy, and also how it doesn’t depend on the opponent’s strength in the area being unwarranted.

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Just check the Wikipedia page, it’s not hard to find, but I’ve provided a link if you’re really interested (just don’t be selective about what you cite from it. It actually includes some negative material too, but it’s hard to find):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

Perhaps the best way to summarize her accomplishments as Secretary of State was to describe her as a healer.

It is not generally a glamorous job description but after the mess she and President Obama inherited from Former President Bush and his minions, the world badly needed a healer.

As for her work as a Senator, just ask my fellow residents of New York State, and her colleagues in the Senate.

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To add, just the fact that she’s maintained solid approval ratings as SoS and is generally perceived as successful in that role is a sizable accomplishment unto itself. It means she hasn’t f__ked up massively. Look at Condoleeza Rice. Nobody will remember her accomplishments. Instead she’s lumped in with the Bush era as just another tool that led us into a decade-long pointless war. The “list her accomplishments” is just a passing right-wing talking point.

BTW, the GOP is going after Hillary Clinton for something much greater than the equivalent “ga-ga” about the alleged “Bridgegate” involving Christie, a potential presidential runner for the GOP which the Democratic party relentlessly scrutinized for months in a row.

Democrats went nuts about a few lane closing while minimizing the death of 4 Americans one of which was an Ambassador. Talk about double standards here.

It’s a mixed bag, but Politico cites a poll which shows that most Americans don’t believe they were misled about Benghazi:

   http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/poll-not-mislead-on-benghazi-85308.html

“The big tell of course is that in both cases the Republicans are complaining that Hillary didn’t thump her chest and grunt in the right way, just like a Republican would. Because as we all know, chest thumping is what gets real results in world statescraft.”

If you take polling seriously; and maybe this is a mistake; but, if you do, a recent poll showed that when the public was polled about American foreign policy with respect to the Ukraine, by far the majority of respondents agreed with the actions being taken WHEN THEY WERE ITEMIZED. If the same cohort was asked whether they thought Obama was handling the Ukraine crisis well, the majority disapproved. No doubt some of these folks are Obamaphobes, but I think there is another dynamic at work here that you call “chest thumping”. After Iraq and Afghanistan, there is deep public skepticism about military interventionism. But, there’s also still a strong tendency among the public to believe that other nations should do what we say, just because we’re the USA. Well, American hegemony is pretty much dead right now. But, a good portion of the public and also old white politicians, brought up on the idea of permanent American hegemony blames the President or John Kerry, or Hillary Clinton for what amounts to their vicarious loss of self- esteem.

Of course, we all know what Condoleeza Rice’s accomplishments were during the cheney admin.

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Condi Rice was uninvited to be the commencement speaker at Rutgers University for which she was going to get $35,000.00. because the students protested so forcefully That’s a good thing that happened to someone under bush. P.S. Con dolcezza, “played with sweetness” is the source of her name. HA!

A week later, Rogin reported that some of top Clinton deputies at State had attempted to stop sanctions on Iran for which she had been taking credit in May 2014.

Of course the GOP (which is feeding the Daily Beast their anti-Clinton grist) strip the Iran sanctions “issue” totally out of context. Yes the State Department and the White House at the time was opposing the various Congressional bull-in-a-china-shop sanction bills because it just gained acceptance from Iran of the P5+1 agreements in Geneva to halt their uranium enrichment programs and they wanted to give that agreement its 6 month window while it worked out work on a comprehensive agreement on their uranium program.

This set-up, and eventually worked, in that an agreement was reached and the enriched uranium has been degraded and the program suspended.

This is why State, not Congress handles foreign policy and negotiates agreements. The only people trying to make hay out of the successful negotiations by Clinton then Kerry on Iran are either fools who know nothing about the topic at hand, or preening chest-thumping fools on the Hill (a place where chest puffery on Iran, regardless of the merits) has been a near 100% from a bunch of clowns who have, since the Carter administration, found nothing but political brownie points to demagogue in public about the “mad Mullahs” in Iran.

Thank god State and not Congress is actually in charge of foreign policy and diplomacy (that is when we don’t have the “yehaw” idiots from the GOP in power).

Don’t get me wrong, there are some real reasons to be cautious about jumping in 100% behind a Clinton bid in 2016. Many are the same reasons that lead me (and I’m sure many others) to give a serious look at, and eventually back Barack Obama when the villagers and the media et al were fully onboard the “inevitability” meme about her 2008 bid.

But in typical Rovian fashion, trying to attack what are legitimate strengths of Clinton’s record while at State is lame and flys in the face of reality when you look at it in the larger context (both then and now).

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I misspoke.

That should have read "President Bush and his handlers.

What’s the relative count of Congressional investigations into Benghazi vs Bridgegate?

Everything I’ve read tells me the average voter is sick and tired of the issue of Benghazi. It means almost nothing to them as an issue that affects their own lives, and so are likely to turn away from the increasing shrillness. The Rs won’t touch meaningful policies because they are in disarray on all of them, but on the obscure outpost in North Africa, they’re positively touchy feely.

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whizzing into the wind again.

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