Discussion for article #245911
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Negatory, good buddy. The non-violent approach at the Bundy ranch encouraged the Oregon invasion.
If the FBI and BLM had gotten off their lazy butts and done something at the Bundy ranch, like arrest him and seize his cattle to help payoff the back grazing rent, it would have stopped there
Instead, they showed the government as cowardly and squishy, and the Patriot movement white trash laughed at them.
So you are saying violence was the way to go at the Bundy Ranch? And you think that would have been a good idea, and would have stopped future confrontations? Wow.
Who’s laughing now?
No, that would have made it worse. And by the way, the people here were protesting the ARREST and IMPRISONMENT of the Hammonds, totally unrelated to the Bundy Ranch. So that Law Enforcement action did not stop nuts from protesting.
I’m thankful people like you are not calling the shots (pun intended). Your cowboy approach reminds of of Bush, invade first, then think about what goes next.
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If the feds had not backed down at Bundy Ranch, people would have been killed…they were completely ready to shoot the feds, from distance and with cover. I have wondered why they didn’t go back at them, but anything they tried would have had the same response. Now, I think the feds were waiting, and had embedded agents into the “patriot movement”, so they knew something like this was building up. And, after Oregon, the movement pretty much discredited itself in the eyes of Americans, just like McVeigh did to the militia movement (and without the horror and deaths). Sure, there will still be lots of yammering, but they pretty much lost their support beyond the fringe, and Bundy is now in jail as well (and you can bet the feds will put his fines as part of their case).
All in all, lots better than taking the fight to a bunch of people who wanted to fight and be martyrs for their cause.
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I think he’s right about it leaving a better impression than it ending with violence, but I think you’re fooling yourself if you think these sovereign citizen oathkeeper bircher types have been convinced that they shouldn’t be trying to resort to their “second 'menment remedies” every chance they get in hopes of starting the new revolution/race war.
Just watch how fucking batshit they go if we win in November. They’re going to continue to escalate so long as there isn’t a fellow racist white conservative male in the WH trying to disassemble the federal gov’t because it’s now become an inconvenience to them, etc.
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a “nonviolent coda” that reduces the likelihood that sympathizers will seek retribution.
This assumes a certain amount of thought/reasonableness on the part of the armed yahoos. I think they are incapable of rational thought. Hell, they’ve already proven that.
Patriots/Occupiers/Domestic Terrorists: This whole episode from FBI was nothing but a race driven exercise. We expected to be treated the same way white cops treat black citizens, kill first and look for reason later. We prepared ourselves for gun fights and major confrontation with FBI. However, Obama turned out to be a racist and cornered us unexpectedly.
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They played a long game, the Feds, and they won.
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Maybe LaVoy’s tarp will be the new Shroud of Turin.
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I think the FBI showed tremendous wisdom and restraint here, and I applaud them for it. Having listened to a bit of the audio stream from last night, it became abundantly clear that these sovereign citizen occupiers are really consumed with self-loathing. These sad individuals didn’t just expect to be attacked, at some level it seemed they wanted to be attacked, to die in a hail of bullets, or stand at the vanguard of some insane libertarian revolution. But when the feds refused to play that game, the occupiers were left with no imaginary villain to oppose. To me, that’s the lesson for the future: no more martyrs, no more space for imagined heroic deaths.
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I disagree. First of all, it was not stated that these tactics would stop such incidents, but that it reduces the potential of such a thing. That makes sense. Just like gun regulation won’t stop gun deaths, but would certainly reduce them.
Plus, nuts looking to be “martyrs” now know the FBI won’t just shoot them up to allow them to be. Instead, they will need to shoot first or reach for their weapons. And they now know they will be doing prison time for any stupidity.
I think the strategy and tactics used were intelligent, and have reduced any sympathy for these nuts tremendously.
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So, one should conclude you’d recommend an approach similar to that used on the Branch Davidians??
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I don’t think it was non-violence in the earlier Nevada incident that encouraged the Oregon incursion, but the lack of consequences after it ended, and the fact that they were able to intimidate federal authorities. If people had been arrested and forced to face charges, I think fewer people would be interested in a repeat.
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And now that’s happening.
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I like the way it turned out except for the death of Finicum. But the fact that only one individual died, an individual intent on death by cop, gives me renewed hope for my country. So what if old man Bundy had a year and a half to laugh and gloat? Patience is a virtue and I applaud B.O. For his handling of these two instances.
I guess old man Bundy finds this all not so funny now. And although it sort of goes against the way I’ve always thought of myself, I have to say I was delighted to read that he was surrounded by a SWAT team when he landed in Portland last night. How do you like them apples you traitorous p.o.s.?
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Another thing that has me giggling is that old man Bundy has asked for a public defender. He just can’t let go of the government teat.
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Oh no, he didn’t. LOL! Wonder what happened to the evils of big/federal government?
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But he doesn’t get one until he presents a financial statement.The rest of those clowns are petty criminals with marginal incomes, Aamon gets pro bono representations from ambulance chasers with dreams of glory, but Ol’ Cliven has assets. Unless the ambulance chasers step up he’s probably going to have to hire an attorney.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Janice M. Stewart directed Bundy to present a financial affidavit to the court before a court-appointed attorney could be assigned.
"The court only appoints counsel for those who can’t afford an attorney,’’ Stewart said.
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I was amazed at his arrogance, thinking he could just waltz into the situation. I knew there were going to be repercussions for him at some point, but he must’ve thought he was invincible.
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Judge Stewart is serious. Old man Bundy was, through his temporary court-appointed atty., complaining that his blood pressure was very high and that he needed his meds that are in a bag he had with him when he was busted. Judge Stewart told them that the protocol is that he sees the jail medical office. The atty. told her that the retrieval of the bag would speed up the prescription writing. Judge Stewart said, no, she would stick with protocol. I think she is the judge holding the little Bundy’s, et. al. without bail. I suspect it will be a long time before any of these 28 or so outlaws will see “freedom” again.
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