Discussion for article #230087
Iād suggest getting married at Hobby Lobby, catered by Chik-Fil-A, with wedding cake from Denverās Masterpiece Cakeshop.
In other words, rub their bigoted faces in their own ignorance and superstition.
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Hmmmā¦ not getting a reading on my Sympathy Meter.
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Theyāll make their money back and then some if they decide to sign up for the Butthurt Evangelical Martyrs Tour.
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Or not.
This stuff is a bit more complicated that the bit suggests. First, if the real reason for denial was out of religious concerns ( true it might not have actually been that ) I think they should be able to deny service. Like it or not the Christian Bible says homosexuality is a sin. A 4000 year old opinion completely out of touch with todayā¦yes. But no one would force a Jewish caterer to provide pork chops for a wedding and that ban is just as archaic.
There is the chance the reason was bigotry dressed up as religious objection and if so they should go down. But how do you determine which it is? And why do gay couples make a fuss about this?
A religious objection is a legitimate one. And I am no evangelical GOPāer. Why not just find another joint and suggest to the original one they make it clear in their advertising they do not do gay weddings due to religious beliefs? Same for bakers.
I actually hope this is reversed and a less in your face way to resolve this mess takes place. The girls donāt deserve a fucking dime from that business and I have to askā¦why would they take it? Itās a mess but capitalizing on it economically is just bullshit. A good hard look at this fubar crap leads me to believe no oneā¦on either side of itā¦ is on the up and up.
Would be OK if my bible said black and white people should not be married and therefore the public business I run, not a church, catering to all religions is free to deny service to a mixed race couple.
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If you want to debateā¦lets go. If you want to make crap upā¦no dice. If your Bible ( I am an atheist and do not have one ) says mixed marriage is wrong ( it does not ) and you are sincerely devote I think you have a right to deny.
I am not making crap up to be an asshole, but to point out something. This is a public business not a church. And as such this business should abide by all the laws against discrimination that say a restaurant, hotel or any other business would. So if I run a hotel and I am an evangelical who believes homosexuality is a sin, by your rules I should be able to deny homosexuals a room. To say the least I donāt agree.
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How do you know it is bigotry? A duck thinks everyone has webbed feet and you may think the only reason for this is bigotry. And it damn well might be bigotry. But if these folks are devout Christians and ālive by the Bookā its not bigotry. To them it is a command from God and they do what He says.
In this caseā¦did the Judge punish the bigotry of the farm owners or their sincerely held religious beliefs?
I donāt know that it is, but it doesnāt matter. As a public accommodation, not a church, this business cannot deny service for any reason. except: no shirt, no shoes no service 
So maybe what is missing from this story is that this couple wanted to get married barefoot and topless.
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OKā¦but you donāt have to make stuff up when holding strong cards. Itās private property. The government has rules on the use of it and one is the prohibition of bigoted discrimination. I think the farm owners position is they are not discriminating but following the commands that are given by God to all Christians. In other words there is no hatred involved.
But lets take a look at the other side. Why would these girls make an issue of it? If the folks say no just move the hell on. Did they really want to use that land after they found out how itās owners felt? But more importantā¦do they really know what the motives of these farmers are? I am sure they are not happy when folks talk about the āchoiceā they made to be gay. So why not understand these folks may have a REAL reason, deeper than choice, in their decisions?
I donāt think the government should make me sell wiener schnitzel in my Italian restaurant because some folks of Austrian decent walked in or host a wedding for the brother of a guy that shot my kid dead. Hope you get my points.
And yup its tough because I donāt want a vegetarian cashier to refuse to ring up my sirloin steak based on some right not to do so. But if that happens Iām going to another jointā¦
So, using your reasoning, because the bible condones slavery, I should be able to own people?
We have a constitution to prevent these things.
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It doesnāt matter if hatred was involved or not nor does private property really have any bearing since the property is being used for a business open to the public. And again it matters not whether it was for religious reasons ( I would argue that their religious views do not give them carte blanche to act like bigots) as a business that appears to cater to everyone they must accommodate everyone or no one. I would venture to say they have probably had weddings and events for people of all denominations including wedding where it was completely non religious.
Now if this place was listed as a Church and they practiced regular services then they would have a case as it stands now the donāt.
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First of all ( and I have been through this with my own business property ) its NOT a public place. It is a PRIVATE place open to the public in accordance with the rules of that private property owner.
Your mistake is a very common one.
If you go to Le Cirque restaurant without a coat and tie they will demand you put one on ( they have them there ) or ask you to leave. Do you think they should be able to set the standard of dress in their own place? You want to eat in a tee shirt and they want you in coat and tie. Can they do it? There is no Gov. Reg in NYC requiring a tie.
Geez. Letās require all businesses catering to the public to get customers to fill out and sign a form stating everything they believe in or donāt believe in. A lot of things are sins, depending on who you ask and their interpretations. Laws are separate from sins. If religious beliefs trump laws, then itās okay to keep slaves because the bible endorses slavery and Jesus never said it was a sin to keep slaves, if that be your belief. Jesus told parables about slaves (servants and mastersā¦same thing), so should we allow them to do the same and that civil laws come second?
If your business benefits by receiving services from a local government or higher (police, utilities, tax breaks, military protecting your rights), then you should have to abide by the laws from that government. If you are on your own island, your own country, then you can do what you want.
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Like I saidā¦if you want to debate lets dance. But in a debate you must make points. There is not a singer point in your post.
You obviously know very little about private property rights. You seem locked into the notion the only reason one could object to gay marriage is bigotry. And you seem to think the Government is totalitarianā¦and can run all over your place and person directing and dictating behavior.
I could not disagree with you more and if your positions are attached to liberalism you can consider last weeks shellacking a light slap on the wrist in comparison to what you are going to get next time. If you feel the Government can tell me, short of criminal behavior, what I can do on my propertyā¦my private propertyā¦you are in the wrong place and the wrong time. Try Germany in 1936 or the USSR in 1955.
Doesnāt matter if they have a āsincerely held religious beliefā if they operate a business in the public sphere, and the law says a business cannot discriminate of the basis of sexual orientation. They either follow the law, change what they do, or go out of business. Religion does not trump law. The government canāt interfere in a religion, equally, religion cannot interfere in government.
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A religious exemption is indeed legitimate, but not in the public market-place. Equality = equality not āmy ideas trump yours.ā I also find it interesting that the owners of the marriage venue say that they will now just host receptions ā¦ for same-sex marriages? So if they do that, that pretty much makes their earlier objections BS.
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Care to point out the book and verse where thatās stated, Richard? Iāve read the bible a couple of times, and I donāt remember seeing the word homosexuality anywhere.
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