Going back to the days of the Inquisition, it’s been known that torture only ends in the results DESIRED by the interrogator. A tortured person will make up and say anything they think will make the torture stop.
This was a dark, dark chapter in American history and one that we should not be covering up, but revealing and ENDING.
That being said, I normally don’t have as much of a problem with Nicole Wallace as I do with the other blond Republican talking head types. I think the level of her arguing about this subject reveals the fact that down inside, she knows it was wrong.
The irony being that she worked for McCain, a former victim of military torture, who has always contended that the harm of committing torture is that it sets up our own soldiers for retribution. The many horrific murders over the years, including recent front page stories about beheaded journalists and aid workers, are surely the result, at least ideologically, to a response to the imbalance of power the US military’s incursion into the region represented, then and now.
Joe Scar was his usual willfully obtuse self this morning, He had Angus King on for a torture segment, and kept arguing there is no difference between “torture provided actionable intelligence” and “the program provided actionable intelligence.”
The CIA itself said in their report there is no proof torture provided good intelligence. Torture apologists, when asked if torture works, always answer the program works. King pointed this out, and Joe went into his usual hissy fit.
The inevitable consequence of the beliefs of people like Nicole Wallace is that somewhere down the line, her own descendants will be the ones tortured.
" “But the notion that what we do affects terrorists is a lie. It’s a lie perpetrated by political correctness and liberals, and it’s dangerous.”
Root of much of the problem. Boatloads of well meaning Americans are oblivious to the fact that we don’t know if we can capture and kill enough terrorists to stem the tide of ones who become terrorists simply as a result of us killing and capturing terrorists. And that’s not even counting those who might go a little nuts if say their brother was tortured on purpose to see if he would talk about what he knew about his acquaintances.
Rumsfeld famously and openly admitted that we do NOT know or have the right “metrics” for getting to the bottom of this known unknown. But well dressed, well fed, happy, respected people still go on TV and say rounding up guys that we are pretty sure are bad and doing stuff like twisting their nipples, denying them light/ food/warmth/quiet and half drowning them doesn’t affect sociopathic terrorists who are known sympathizers with the people we are torturing. Acting like its an unbelievable “notion” that torturing their cohorts could affect our stated enemies behavior. In practically the same sentence wanting to keep it a secret because exposing the truth as we know it would endanger us. Wow-that’s some textbook cognitive dissonance.
Absolutely true. And while slippery slope arguments are often false (marijuana use will lead to heroin; gay marriage will lead to bestiality), I think in this case it is true that if these malicious fools convince enough people that torture did help prevent a single American from getting killed, we’ll repeat someday the mistakes we made after 9/11. That’s why people like this Wallace need to be knocked down hard when they spout this self-serving self-righteous crap.
BTW, this is an interesting editorial by the head of the ACLU calling for pardoning Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al., for their war crimes. The idea is that a pardon is the only way that this country will ever acknowledge that crimes were committed in the first place, and I’ll be damned but I think he might be right.
Haha…it’s kinda fun sometimes when I’m not feeling irritable though. He’s like a cartoonish case study in the textbook defense mechanisms that surface when you attack a person’s deeply held delusions.
The 600 page summary report doesn’t come out until 5 pm today EST. I’m sure they’ll have more on this after its release. In the meantime, rightwing political operatives are out in force for the last day or two trying to work the refs in the media that torture was an absolute necessity, and anyone that questions its efficacy is trying to make us “less safe and putting the country IN DANGER”.
The usual professional fear-mongerers are putting their habitually detestable spin on the report, as they all similarly revert to form. Even though the current Republican party is noticeably ashamed to bring up their names in public anymore (and have gone out of their way to avoid them for some time), Bush/Cheney still know how to work the levers of authority in their party, and are in the process of mobilizing the usual sycophants and party faithful to defend their torture regime and their illegal actions. Hopes of continuing the lie that it was an effective tool to fight terrorism is THE BIG LIE THAT WILL NOT GO AWAY…not if they have anything to say about it. If it did, the entire 8 years of their war criminal enterprise basically falls apart on its face.
That’s an interesting concept Carlos. Romero argues that it’s the only way to validate that crimes were committed and that the torturers were criminal, but I honestly believe that by the time the right-wing noise machine was done most people in the U.S. would ultimately conclude that, see, even Obama says what was done is OK. I think it would backfire.
And, its also an untrue statement by her. Tell her we need to ensure we never elect another republican to the White House (Let’s face it, it was on a republican’s watch, and I use that term loosely…perhaps a republican’s nonwatch is more accurate…that we were attacked) and just watch how quickly she pulls that statement back.
Nor should Bush allowed the members of the bin Laden family to leave on the first flights out without letting the FBI interview them first (esp. if he was so interested in the facts)
I fail to see why defending something you know is wrong is better than defending something you believe is right when you shouldn’t have that belief. The first is a lie while the second is a mistake.
“In my mind there is no possible way a female Republican is “thoughtful.””
hmm-- expecting better of just the females among us? I feel so special believing I am capable of thoughtfulness while also having the handicap of being male. Love, the anti overgeneralization troll.
What if it were accompanied by a truth and reconciliation process a la South Africa? If you want the pardon, tell us what you did and speak to the victims and/or their families.
