You asked:
I’m able to read just fine. Your comment was deplorable.
6 Likes
so a colon instead of a period makes all the difference.
First post from me
I saw her on Morning Joy. I feel bad because this isn’t going to make a lick of difference and she’s just going to be vilified or ignored.
You
It depends what kind of difference. He won’t be turned out of office as a direct result of this revelation, not when it’s one among 22. But there’s a rage building I don’t think normal polling techniques could capture.
Me
Maybe. I haven’t seen any rage. Mostly i see her getting the same response as most accusers. Why did she wait until now to say anything? Where was she in 2016? Is she just trying to make money/get famous?
Kind of fucking obvious i’m telling you what i’m seeing other people saying about her NOT my thoughts on her. When my very first posts says I feel bad because she’s being ignored and vilified!
4 Likes
Part of it is classic PTSD, or why women don’t revisit (for lack of a better word) their experience. Aside from the brutality of rape there’s the real thought of being killed. It took me 20 years or so to revisit Vietnam experiences. But it is hard to understand.
8 Likes
Gee, how special,. You feel “bad” about her experience. So don’t repeat bullshit questions posed by serial misogynists in a conversation about sexual assault and attempt to cast that as furthering the discussion.
We know these reprobates will denigrate the victim. That’s been the tactic for subjugating women for eons. Our role now is to drive them out and end this. We don’t need a rehash of their spewings and consider that as any sort of reasonable conversation.
F*ck that.
4 Likes
because she knows that that part of the narrative can be used to prove it was an assault and not consentual unless she specifically makes it clear
8 Likes
It was a real question.
2 Likes
Charlie Rose? The guy who lost his job for sexually harassing female employees? He totally should have been leading that discussion.
3 Likes
We will know it is safe for a woman to speak when misogynist stop asking this question. We all know why and if you don’t you didn’t read the article or you don’t understand the misogynist culture women must survive in.
6 Likes
Research the trauma that victims suffer when assaulted and get back to us on how their screams are often silent.
That your question was “real” reveals much about you and compassion. Your “question” smacks of victim blaming.
5 Likes
My wife shared this story with me last night and it made me feel a little unhinged.
This woman was probably under the impression that it was actually illegal for someone with a record of having tried to kill someone in a domestic dispute to own firearms. But, of course, that is not the case at all in almost any state in this country. The ability to own guns is sacred beyond all other considerations and property rights are sacrosanct above life.
In one or two years, or maybe five, when the husband finally succeeds in killing her, maybe this story will be dug up by some enterprising reporter and we can all ask what is wrong with this country. But who am I kidding? We will be too busy talking about teenagers being born with extra phone thumbs and some insane tweet launched by some insane celebrity to notice.
7 Likes
It would have made a lot of difference, actually, because then it would have been clear and not ambiguous. These misunderstandings happen and I politely asked you to clarify it in light of how a number of people on our own side have suggested right here that if she’d spoken up in 2016 maybe that would have made a difference in the outcome.
Anyway of course I agree with you on all that. The rage is there IMHO, visible anecdotally, in the mobilization we’ve been seeing, the 2018 results, the “strongly opposed” numbers, in lots of subtle ways. The rapes, the taking children, the abuse of refugees, the vulgarity and incomptence, all of it, there are people who more and more just viscerally loathe him and want him gone.
10 Likes
That crossed my mind also, even before I watched the whole interview.
Regardless, I wanted to get a sense of who she was in 1995. The interview was fun to watch even though Charlie Rose is a douche.
No nothing to do with your assumptions. It happened in a retail store. A scream would have been heard. That’s why I asked. But believe what you want to.
1 Like
A lifetime of programming - to believe that somehow this is your fault, your mess to deal with, and above all, to handle it without upsetting anyone else, thereby “making things worse.”
Sounds like it began with two people acting like mischievous teenagers in a place known for well heeled, refined behavior, and then he just pounced—relying on her not “to make a scene.”
You think you know someone well enough, you believe the situation is safe, and then the person you thought you knew turns out to be a predator, and you aren’t safe anymore.
5 Likes
Hold up. Everyone on this thread, bar some trolls who slip through, despises Trump and recognizes him as a dyed-in-the-wool misogynist and serial abuser (among a long litany of profound character defects). But there are legitimate reasons to be somewhat skeptical of this particular accusation:
-
Carroll waited 3+ years after the first allegations broke against Trump, saying nothing while other women stepped forward and the national conversation (stunted as it was) was focused on the issue. There was a clear moment to do this, and she did not take it.
-
It is not as if she is now or was then in a vulnerable professional position–she’s a well known advice columnist who specializes in a certain brand of pop feminist hot takes. It is hard to conceive of her having been cowed into silence given the world we’ve lived in for the past several years.
-
She is indeed flogging a book, and this suggests a motive beyond the public good or the need to expose a predator and heal.
-
There are some difficult to believe elements of her story, including that it happened in a public department store and that she–a 52-yr old in 1996!–would not have shouted for help or gotten the attention of employees, security, and the police immediately afterwards.
Things might have happened just as she says they did, but it is far from a slam dunk. And those of us interested in making sure that DJT’s many real victims don’t see their allegations watered down by opportunists shouldn’t be accused of misogyny ourselves.
Thanks. That makes the most sense. It was Bergdorfs. I guess like when someone is having a heart attack but they don’t want to make a scene
3 Likes
IF you don’t want to be accused of misogyny—or worse—delete that entire ill-thought-out comment.
10 Likes
The aim of serial rapists like Trump is to dominate the victim. Once Carroll was lured into a place where he had the advantage, the real monster took over. Just like Kavanaugh. Trump still wants the Central Park Five put to death because they “confessed”. So no, he will never admit what he has obviously done.
6 Likes
Where was she? You saw all the women come forward and it didn’t make one bit of difference. Women don’t come forward because as others have said they’re vilified and made to look like they brought it on themselves.
You saw what happened to Christine Blasey Ford testifying against Kavanaugh. Do you wonder why she didn’t come forward sooner?
Just bloody look how these women are treated, have a little bit of empathy.
@yolomike
What makes you think it’s not a “slam dunk”? Were you there? You’re typical of men that always doubt the woman.
14 Likes
If a big guy came up to you in changing rooms and demanded your wallet or he’d kill you, would you start screaming and hope someone got there in time who could save you? Or would you hand over the wallet and hope he doesn’t do anything worse?
It’s always easy to monday-morning quarterback a traumatic incident and imagine how of course it’s obvious what a person should have done.
To avoid coming off as foolish or way off base, I’d really recommend time on the Googles and see how victims of assault reacted in many different ways.
Putting it like you did comes across as victim-blaming, just like the following questions which should also never be asked:
-Was she drinking
-Did she wear tight/provocative clothing
-Did she talk to or flirt with the perpetrator before the attack
etc. etc. etc.
12 Likes