Discussion for article #240474
Much needed move. Should be combined with a real pounding on Palestinian leadership, especially Hamas, that has done nothing but immiserate their people.
A. Not going to happen. If you think the storm in Washington over the Iran deal was loud, think of that multiplied 10 times. Or maybe 100 times.
B. A dumb move. Plays into the hands of the rejectionists, from the evangelical right to AIPAC and beyond.
C. Recognition would make serious talk of peace less, not more likely.
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This “window of opportunity” is opened just about wide enough for a gnat to squeeze through. There is way to much money to be made selling arms in a disfuctional middle east, not to mention the world-wide political disfunction provided by this morass; divided, angry, constantly arguring sheeple are easier to control. If a path that will provide more wealth than the current situation is presented to the world’s oligarchs then maybe there is a chance for peace (and a two state solution), but that is about as iffy as a a snow ball’s chance in hell.
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Utterly pointless and not going to happen. The two state solution is dead. Hamas doesn’t want it and Netanyahu doesn’t want it. The only people who want it are US Jews who want to be able to feel good about what has become an increasingly racist apartheid system.
US boots on the ground to fight for Israel? Not a chance. The Republicans back Israel as a sop to the evangelicals whose end times eschatology teaches that the destruction of Israel and the death of all the Jews there will bring about the second coming.
Netanyahu has already demonstrated the course Israel will follow. His actions will become increasingly difficult for Americans to defend and any person who eventually replace him will be worse. At some point he will be recognized as the Putin of the Middle East, having subverted a democracy into an aggressive bigoted regime.
Support for Israel is heavily dependent on age. As the holocaust guilt generation dies out, so will the unquestioning support that Netanyahu and company increasingly and arrogantly demand as of right. Eventually a breaking point will be reached and Israel will cut itself adrift.
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The World is acknowledging Palestine…The zionists of Israel keep slaughtering and creating a broader apartheid…Investment is down 50% across the World against Israel’s gov’t policies…
It is time to look into this in more depth and with clarity…ignoring the zioinist aipac threats and looking at the atrocities created by the bully bibi and sanctioned by the USA ONLY in ALL the World…
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While I applaud the sentiment here and almost agree a better way would be for us to stop propping up Israel. Israel responds only when we threaten and follow up those threats with acts. Cut off their aid until they stop building settlements and start tearing down the illegal ones they have built. Next we should step out of the negotiating process. We cannot be the lead negotiator and Israel’s lawyer at the same time.
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Too late. The bold move that is needed is for the PNA and the PLO to dissolve themselves, surrender, and declare that they recognize the West Bank and Gaza as Israeli territory. Then they start agitating for the vote and complete equal rights. Believe me, that is the Israeli right’s worst nightmare.
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What could possibly go wrong?
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“Palestine” is a failed state. Or two failed states (Bangledesh – nee “East Pakistan”), The “halves” are separated geographically and are at war with each other. Both are ruled by thugacrocies and are “supported” by foreign powers.
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Why does the world need another Arab country? Doncha think the Kurds – a distinct ethnic community are more deserving of their own country (split up by – of course – the Brits). How about the Tamils in Ceylon? Or the Tibetans? Puleeze!
OTOH, if Palestine was a recognized country, the next time they fire rockets Israel could go all “Bomber Harris” on them.
I will be surprised if Obama recognizes the State of Palestine. A step too far just before the presidential election, perhaps, or one that he just isn’t prepared to take. What he might do is choose not to veto measures in the UN Security Council that advance statehood for the Palestinians. That would lay down a marker for the Israelis, which is the most that can be expected from Obama. I’m afraid that it is too late, however; the two-state solution is dead – too much of Palestine has been taken already by Israel – it simply wouldn’t be viable as an independent state. So, by default, we and the Palestinians and Israelis are left with the one-state solution.
This author is a Palestinian interests advocate, “a policy adviser to Al-Shabaka, the Palestinian Policy Network and Chairman of Palestinians for a Vibrant Palestinian Economy” Of course he wants U.S. to unilaterally recognize Palestine – when does his side NOT want that?! When was he against this? This is not good faith advice to a departing U.S. President with 14 months before election day - it’s just callous regurgitation of an age-old wish list… It’s a really poor suggestion practically – there is a “narrow window” and all GOP has to do is drag their feet and till they reverse the policy even prior to taking office, having gotten elected on “genocide” charges.
“Why is Obama ideal for this historic task?” Because he happens to occupy the Oval Office while the one side happens to be bellyaching. I support the result, but this is a cartoon, not a real proposal.
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Why don’t we start with something simple, like Abbas being willing to negotiate. I’m no big fan of a Netanyahu, but Bibi has said, yet again, that he is willing to meet Abbas anywhere, anytime to negotiate with everything on the table. Why not put him to the test? Frankly, I’d have been more impressed to see an article by a Palestinian advocate pushing Palestinian leadership towards a realistic peace agreement. Within the cacophony of Israeli voices, there has been an Israeli peace movement for decades. I’ve never seen anything similar on the Palestinian side. Why not?
So RealNormanRogers what do you recommend Israel do with the Palestinians? Even in other failed states, Bangledesh for example people and goods can come into or out of the country freely. Not true for Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza. The Kurds have citizenship in the countries they reside (Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria). Not true of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. The current situation cannot go on indefinitely. Without a 2 state solution Israel is eventually going to have to grant Palestinians or transfer them. Do you think Israel can survive economically in the face of the World’s rejection of transfer?
This is the path…
If we didn’t veto a resolution regarding Israel that would send a huge message.
Preferably it would be a minor or almost symbolic resolution at first as to limit the real effect but send the message of willingness to follow through.
The audience for that message would also go beyond Israel.
It’s not a sincere initiative and there’s no time. Not worth you getting doing the knave’s prep for him. He’s not remotely serious; no need for you/us to be.
“Recognition” doesn’t make a state.
In the most basic Weberian sense, a monopoly on violence does and the PA does not have that, even in the West Bank. Beyond that, to even have some kind of legitimacy, it must be able to deliver basic services. The PA can’t even pick up the garbage in most places, let alone deliver the kind of health, education, and basic municipal services required from a legitimate state. You can blame Israel all you want for it, but until you untie this knot, flying flags at the UN and “declarations” on paper won’t do anything.
If you go outside of your one tiny hair away from antisemitic comments there and out of the mondoweiss bubble, you’ll realize that this forecast of generational doom is based on nothing but your own retro-rationalizations for why people support Israel. If being part of the “holocaust guilt” generation had anything to do with it, support for Israel wouldn’t have fluctuated after the 80s Lebanon war.
People support Israel for many reasons, some old, some new. And even if support for it totally collapses, the idea that even if Israel “cut[s] itself adrift” this is going to resolve this problem is ridiculous. Israel isn’t going to surrender and move millions of people out one day just because it loses at the UN or is down in US opinion polls.
The sooner you realize they aren’t going away the sooner you’ll get closer to a real solution.
The lack of a state apparatus to monitor incoming and outgoing goods isn’t a good thing, so comparing total anarchy to the situation in Palestine isn’t a helpful one. As for goods coming and going freely, I wasn’t aware Israel or the PA being part of any free trade pact with anyone.
Also, please explain how Israel is preventing Egypt from letting goods in to Gaza.
And this time they would be right. We could recognize Cliven Bundy’s ranch in Nevada as a state and that wouldn’t make it one.
If anyone really cares to help the Palestinians, they’ll help them build capacity for statehood instead of aiding them in their hollow symbolic victories which only serve to distract everyone, including the Palestinian people, from the fact that the PA can’t get the job done. In the end, we might actually be better off negotiating with Hamas, who at least isn’t as corrupt and has shown some capacity for getting something done even if we wish it were something else.
Constantly accusing people fed up of Bibi and the settlers of anti-semitism is a big reason the liberal movement is fed up of Israel supporters.
At this point AIPAC has zero influence in the Democratic party outside Congress. They might as well be Club for Growth for all I care. Schumer backed AIPAC on Iran because he is of an age where people believed the holocaust was absolute justification for anything Israel did or might do. Younger folks really can’t see why US guilt at not allowing Jews to escape NAZI persecution by coming to America justifies dispossessing the Palestinians. And now when the game is dispossessing Palestinians to make room for French and US Jews, the essentially colonial attitude is all too apparent.
Israel isn’t going to go away but the notion of Israel as an apartheid state for Jews first certainly will. The definition of a country as being for one ethnic group is inherently racist and doomed to fall sooner or later. Accusing people of anti-semitism is just projection of the inherently racist nature of the project.
At the end of the day there will be one state and Palestinians will have full voting rights regardless of whether they are currently considered citizens or not. The idea that Israel can or should stand against the tide of history is ridiculous. No modern economy can last long alone.
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