In this case, an impeachment proceeding before the legislature will be due process.
(At bottom, “due process” is simply the process that is due.)
Fairfax is, for reasons I can’t fathom, trying to tread water. Unless there’s something he knows that we don’t, I find it very very hard to believe that he’s got some evidence that is going to prove that the women accusing him are lying. Or “confused.” Or “mistaken.”
I can’t see how he can stay in office long-term. If any of you have an idea of how he might, please illuminate that for the rest of us.
I’m with him on that.
As Malcolm Nance said on Maher
There’s an awful lot of coincidental releases against Democrats after several hard fought campaigns did not reveal them
Yes, let’s stop trying people in the court of public opinion. Hold an investigation, and then if necessary hold the person accountable. We should have done this with Franken.
Impeachment typically involves an investigation, which is what Fairfax is asking for.
^ THIS ^
True. But the investigation of a state impeachment would not usually involve the FBI, which he has called for. Frankly, I don’t see what having the FBI investigate would accomplish that can’t be done by state authorities, but if the FEEBs come in, so what?
I think Fairfax is trying to delay things, hoping that something will come up to save him, or that somehow the public will lose interest. I think that’s delusional.
The public, and the accusers, have a substantial interest in moving this along. Although Fairfax has a right to due process, due process does not mean undue delay.
Unless the guy has a deathwish, or wants to drag the entire state through an wholly unsightly quagmire…I find his call for due process to be a point in his favor.
Why would someone who was guilty or at least would be horribly wounded by the public airing of TWO 'trials" be asking for this? If he was involved with both women sexually, he is going to be in a bad situation. If he can prove the one never happened and the other is really trying to ‘trump’ up charges from a non-incident, he maybe can get clear of this if it is indeed some RW hatchet job. And you get to expose the RW in the process.
No matter how you look at it, the Ds do themselves no favors by skipping investigations. I think that after a few days, most pols know which way their case is trending and so do the leadership, and if it looks to be too much pain and damage, they all agree to bow out. If there is truth and justice or uncovering RW plots to be found in the first few days…then you dig in and allow proper sunshine to do it’s thing.
“Due Process” is for white folks only, like Trump and his minions.
“And we’re looking forward to these independent investigations to get at the truth.”
Maybe there will be a thorough, far-reaching, and impartial investigation of these quite serious allegations.
Like the one Trump’s FBI did for Kavanaugh.
Good for him. I’m damned sick and tired of Democrats being rat-fucked out of office before any semblance of due process is done. Let the facts come out and if he’s guilty put him behind bars.
Even an impeachment process should include a thorough investigation and not the summary judgement people seem to want.
Some interesting questions arise here, due to the parallels with the Current Occupant and his troubles. Impeachment is simply a political process, while the FBI investigation would be a criminal probe. Two very different things with the potential same result; removing a public official from office. I agree with Fairfax that he is entitled to an actual investigation (and trial) but impeachment does not have to wait for that. Let’s also remember that accusations of sexual assault are far more serious an offense than donning offensive makeup. Again, I’m not defending any of these characters, but we are still “trying the facts” on Twitter and in this forum; a very dangerous move, imho.
Impeachment is a Political process, not due process in a court of law. Need I remind everyone, to my knowledge one of the chambers of the VA. legislature is controlled by the GOP and no one would believe they are capable of due process. Thus, I do not agree with you, lets have the actual legal system handle this matter.
Thanks for this reminder. For most of my adult life I was prone to almost invariably leap headlong into the instant outrage/judgment mosh pit when something of this sort arose, but I am learning to slow things down, take a deep breath, and give processes of discovery a chance.
Haven’t followed the Fairfax issue closely, but it seems fair in what he is asking.
Kavanaugh was a travesty in two ways. We know the investigation was short stopped in thoroughness to start. So due process was of course not followed, to his favor. But the real problem is his response to it all revealed that regardless of committing a crime or not, he is not worthy of a position as important as what he ended up with.
Northam is an easy toss, because his response again, showed us the measure of the man. The black face photos were bad, but I bet he could have survived them. But he is incapable of doing so, compounding his problems every single time he speaks.
I do not know if Fairfax is in that territory yet.
I find no fault with what you say. However, sexual assault is just as easy, if not easier to concoct than just about any really serious offense.
All you need is one willing person to lie. No documents to forge, no bigger conspiracy or paper trail or motives or anything needs to be conjured up. Just one person who says we were both drunk…but then suddenly I came to my senses and I was being raped. No my drunk actions have nothing to do with it, but he was drunk and makes him more guilty and nobody really remembers much it is all fog but please end this person’s career on my say so.
Please believe I am not diminishing anyone’s experience with sexual assault…I am just merely saying it is the easiest thing imaginable if you are trying to entrap or ruin someone. If you were to get someone on murder or violence or espionage or corruption you need receipts, dates, corroboration, stolen goods, paper trails, accomplices, witnesses, motives. With a rape allegation, nobody may even be able to prove you were both in the same town on the same date and it still can ruin anyone. No matter how high up the ladder they are.
If you take a step back, how we deal with each incident informs us on a standard for future cases. On the one hand, I think people can be sympathetic to the due process argument. On the other hand, I think people can be sympathetic to the view that no one should be required to support someone they don’t believe. In other words, Al Franken could’ve stayed in and gone through due process but the party members were not required to support him. Fairfax, too, can technically request due process and the VA legislature can make it happen, but VA Dems are not required to withhold statements demanding his resignation. In the Franken matter, he resigned before due process happened. In the Kavanaugh matter, due process was short circuited and a vote accelerated by the GOP when they saw things turning bad for them. In this Fairfax matter, we’ll see what the eventual path is.
I heard a lot of Kavanaugh outrage on Breitbart this morning. In the Kavanaugh situation he and his associates did anything they could do to stimy, fake and foreshorten any investigative process. Maybe a new idea would be to actually investigate this stuff especially when it feels like another well orchestrated hit job. Kavanaugh was also a life time appointment.
I couldn’t agree more, I was simply pointing out that the burden of proof and rules of evidence in an impeachment proceeding are far different from those in a criminal proceeding (as are the potential consequences). I’m not urging a rush to judgment in either case, just saying they are two different approaches to the problem. I also agree that its entirely possible that both of these accusers are lying; the fact that all of these attacks originated on right-wing websites definitely gives me pause.
Yep. In the MeToo era, an accusation is a conviction.