The Orville did a great episode on that last season.
Specifically, do you believe that he can be impeached? Because if he cannot (which is pretty difficult in most legislatures), there’s no other mechanism to remove him.
I think it’s great that he is holding on. This crap of bringing up stuff after 15, 20, 35 years has got to end. No police report, it’s bullshit.
In Virginia, "The Virginia state constitution lists “malfeasance in office, corruption, neglect of duty, or other high crime or misdemeanor” as reasons for impeachment. " Clearly he has done NONE of this. Clearly the reasons are RETROSPECTIVE RE-EVALUATION of PRIVATE SEXUAL CONDUCT 15, 20 years after the event.
No fair person would consider such conduct “malfeasance in office, corruption, neglect of duty, or other high crime or misdemeanor". But the hounds of high-dudgeon morality re-examination have been released, and no man is safe.
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What is particularly amusing about the situation here is that when the Northam thing broke, A LOT of comments here at TPM were along the lines of “We can dump Northam, because Fairfax, the Lt Gov, is more progressive, plus he is black”.
Now the situation is changed. Gee, who coulda predicted that?
There seems to be NO interest in self-examination of “progressive” vindictive insanity about insanely high standards of conduct that occurred years and years and years ago. I have stated, on many occasions, that we all, being sinners (not a religious statement), have things we would prefer NOT to see the light of day. Most of us did stupid shit in high school. That book should be closed - for Kavanaugh, Fairfax, Northam. High school should be out of bounds. We are not considering candidates for admission to membership in a college frat. We are considering mature professionals who have PROFESSIONAL conduct to be considered. That should be on the table.
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This is what I’ve been advocating since the shitstorm started.
If you don’t hold a legitimate investigation, you’re left with two options.
First option: Innocent dude hounded out of office by weaponized MeToo.
Second option: Guilty as fuck dude skates, women devalued.
The truth matters. Everything else is bullshit.
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I for the record have steadfastly stated that under no circumstances should Northam resign. These kinds of purity tests will prevent decent people from entering politics. If it was a criminal act, the calculation is different. Stupid hijinks from decades ago devoid of context should not destroy a person’s life.
Let he without sin cast the first stone, motherfuckers.
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I concur with your statement, with the caveat that if a person actually was a serial sexual assaulter, that’s gotta be disqualifying for holding an esteemed position of public trust.
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I want to see an actual investigation for once. We need to establish some orderly precedent for this shit.
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The statement is often made “If he resigns, so what? That’s not a problem. He won’t be in jail”.
This is just the stupidest fucking crap that I have ever heard. The ONLY thing that a professional person owns, and the only thing that he has which is of value, is his reputation. When the casual statement is made to “Oh, just resign”, that is an admission of guilt, and a permanent stain on your reputation.
Under NO circumstances would I ever resign were I to be accused of this kind of bullcrap. My reputation would suffer a permanent loss. In many cultures, almost everyone that I can think of, losing your reputation often leads to suicide. So, no, never resign. And never admit any of this shit.
Show me the fucking police report, or shut up.
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That’s decided in an election. If the accusations are serious, the person will not be elected. Once they are in office, that’s different. The only mechanism to remove someone is impeachment, and that is reserved for high crimes and misdemeanors.
Sexual issues from 20 years ago are not high crimes in office. They simply aren’t. And they are not grounds for impeachment in VA: "The Virginia state constitution lists “malfeasance in office, corruption, neglect of duty, or other high crime or misdemeanor” as reasons for impeachment.
Do not resign, Lt Gov Fairfax. Make them impeach you. No fair person would convict you of high crimes based on what has been heard. None of those “issues” occured IN OFFICE.
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In the Northam case, by the time the first bit was revealed, every D he encountered had the knife out and was condemning and calling for instant resignation. That was my biggest problem. And after that, anything a D wants to say to Northam can be said to Northam and not at some pulpit or podium in front of mics and cameras. And then you let the spokesperson for the proper office do the talking after you told him your views or gave your advice.
We are throwing our politicians to the wolves pre-bloodied and traumatized. We show them immediate collapse and surrender to the Rs…and expect the embattled D to win a 1 against the world battle. Sometimes they are guilty, sometimes not…bad policy either way.
Sure nobody has to support him. And I believe if the MeToo and MidTerms weren’t at fever pitch, Franken might have taken the hit to his family to fight for redemption or absolution. He too saw nothing but D knives almost immediately then heavy hitter Ds getting in front of mics. There are reasons someone who isn’t guilty of anything actionable can see the impending smears and tolls as too high of a price. In Franken’s case I think it was 50/50 or better for him…but if you throw in the Midterms and MeToo…he just didn’t see a way that wasn’t going to hurt Ds bad and would of course turn his family inside out.
But again, the Ds screaming without any organization, procedure, or a day or two to sort things out is the problem everytime regardless of the transgression.
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I guess I’m not a fair parson, then. I consider plausible–indeed, I should say more than plausible–claims of sexual assault to meet the standard of a high crime or misdemeanor.
Were you as angry at Dr. Blasey Ford when she accused Bret Kavanaugh of an offense less serious (and further past) than the accusations against Fairfax?
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Very True.
I reread what I wrote and would just like to say again…I have no reason to doubt an accuser and have argued on that side many times. If somebody thinks they need to come forward I feel that is enough to open the floor to investigate right then and there. About the only thing that would make me think twice is if there is any proof or substantive hint that somebody is being coerced or paid to come forward. I never heard this at the time, but have seen multiple posters here mentioned that Roger Stone played a part in Franken’s undoing. Since that possibly escaped everyone’s attention in the first days of the Franken case, it PROVES we must have a better process than every D in America howling for immediate resignations.
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I’m really glad this whole process is being slowed down because all of these accusations have taken on a mob mentality. Plus the timing surrounding the disclosures is suspicious to say the least.
With the Fairfax situation we’re talking about criminal charges, sexual assault and felony rape. Whether he presumably committed these crimes while he was in office or not shouldn’t be the issue in slowing everything down. Allegations are just that . . .allegations. If Fairfax voluntarily stepped down, he’d automatically be seen as guilty in the court of public opinion, basically kissing his life good-bye. An independent investigation is the only legitimate way forward.
Of course, the Republicans are calling for a speedy resolution because all of this benefits them. Knock out the top three Virginia offices and they get to nullify an election. What’s not to love?
The argument about Kavanaugh makes no sense at all. Kav and his defenders did everything they could to block a serious investigation into Dr. Ford’s testimony, his drinking problem and financial difficulties. Plus the man’s demeanor during those hearings was off the charts. He failed the job interview but ended up with a lifetime appointment.
So yes, slow the whole thing down, proceed with an investigation and let the chips fall as they may.
Interesting too that 58% of the AA community polled has no interest in seeing Northam step down. Rev Barber made comments on the same, suggesting people look at the man and his policy positions rather than what he did 35 years ago. So this whole nightmare is beginning to be reconsidered and reevaluated. Time is the enemy of rash decision-making.
What a rollercoaster!
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I considered NONE of the accusations against Kavanaugh to be credible in the slightest. Sorry, with no evidence, I believe NO accusation. And the fact that the “corroborations” in the Kavanaugh case have all been exposed as lies is not good for his critics. It’s clear that this was simply a political trial and assassination. When there is no method for getting at Kavanaugh on professional grounds, then the Dems simply resorted to gutter politics. Sorry. I was pleased to see him confirmed, for the simple reason that this will, hopefully, make such tactics less likely to be used in the future.
As to his “anti-choice” stance, that is irrelevant. NO ONE that Trump would nominate would be “pro-choice”. So that is not a reasonable position to oppose him. As to his stance on “executive privilege” and indictment of POTUS, IANAL, and am not really qualified to make a call on that.
Dr. Blasey Ford’s testimony WAS evidence. Perfectly competent evidence. As would the testimony–which I expect we’ll hear fairly soon–of the women who have accused Fairfax.
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Fairfax Says He Will Not Resign, Calls For ‘Due Process For Everyone Involved’
Conversely, do not let this vile, awful prick near anything warm…
…Unlike the Governor, this murtherfucker’s arrogance is enraging 
True assessment of what’s just, is reflected in African-Americans supporting Northam’s standing -
Despite All-Media convulsing on BS, and vomiting Trump’s gaslighting tweets.
I don’t give a shit where he was, if he raped two women then it matters a lot. I don’t care what he was doing at the time or how long ago it was, either.
If he wants an investigation fine. He better be careful what he wishes for.
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Fine. However to demonstrate the truth of a charge, you need more than “he-said-she-said”.
Which is all there was. His word, her word. You may believe what you want, but if this was presented to me, there is no way I would believe the charge.
Because women lie, and they have agendas. In this case, the agenda was “stop Trump at any cost”.
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Nope, nope, nope. To prove an allegation, the testimony of one percipient witness is enough. Even if the other party denies that the event took place. It’s nice if there is more evidence, but sometimes there isn’t and more evidence is not necessary. Juries make these decisions every day.
(If you question how I know this, I’ll tell you that I’m a trial lawyer, and I joined the bar well over 40 years ago.)
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Thanks. You said it perfectly.
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