Discussion for article #246995
Well, what are you gonna do?
My mom saw this yesterday and called me to ask if I’d seen it. She said “He’s sickening.”
I agreed.
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Now he’s gone a pissed off the Jews. That about covers the spectrum of those who are offended.
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Not so much “those who are offended” as those who have been insulted, demeaned, and degraded.
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that happened for the first time months ago
he also reiterated his support for Israel while he was was at it…
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Former ADL Director Abe Foxman via TPM:
He [Trump] is smart enough— he always tells us how smart he is—to know the images that this evokes. Instead of asking his audience to pledge allegiance to the United States of America, which in itself would be a little bizarre, he’s asking them to swear allegiance to him.
Exactly. It’s not like you have to be particularly brilliant to know what a Nazi salute looks like, or to know the implications of asking people to swear allegiance to yourself rather than their country or a set of ideals.
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But months ago he wasn’t being taken seriously - and now he is
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Puh-leeese!
This seems a bit of a stretch. Don’t they make you raise your right hand and swear to tell the truth in court? Or is that only don’t on tv nowadays?
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Agreed, much ado about nothing here. Made up whining. And he did not ask them to “salute” him (which is what the Nazi version is), it was more of a pledge. The Boy Scouts and such also do a similar thing, and Glen Beck would call that Nazi indoctrination. So this is real silly. You also raise your hands to vote yes or no to stuff. In Congress too, so I guess Congress are all Nazis? I recall as a kid raising my hand and saying “here” for attendance. Little did I know I was saluting Nazism.
And the photo of the people in the back is misleading, they are raising their hands higher to be seen, not as any kind of affirmed Nazi salute. Plus in the Nazi salute, the arm hand is extended parallel to the arm, etc.
Whining like this only helps Trump. Stick to substance to beat him, not made up nonsense.
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But in the past, his greeting to the crowd looks very much like a Nazi stiff-armed salute. Particularly when viewed from the side. Remember, one of his nicknames is the “Manhatten Musolini”.
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Raising a hand to pledge to tell the truth, or to ask a question, or the many other reasons one raises a hand is not at all like raising your hand to pledge loyalty on another person. And on the command of the other person.
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“I do solemnly swear that I…will vote, on or before the 12th for Donald J. Trump for president.”
Since when do we “solemnly swear” loyalty to people – and by name – in America?
The only historical precedents that spring to my mind are the unfortunate, European ones.
Can anyone cite historical precedent for American examples?
(PS: Many Americans alive today have direct family connections to that tragic chapter, and their keen sensitivity to these dark echoes is completely appropriate.)
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Is there a complete list of “Fascist Hand Gestures” somewhere? There sure does seem to be a lot of experts on the subject.
IAN:
All promises are “solemn”.
Yes, he did this on purpose and damn to those who were/are offended. Odd though since yes, this move I’m sure did really piss off a lot of folks and IMO lost him more potential voters than he hoped to gain. In fact, it was a lunatic move, impromptu as it may have been (don’t know, only a guess). Why? It’s like the lawyers say: never ask a question in court unless you already know the answer.
This crazy move again betrays an infantile mind, one that can’t even process the consequences of asking those folks to pay fealty to Trump. Heck, had he said raise both hands up or clasp both hands together over your head…he would have been safe. But oh no, not the great Donald. He needed a Nazi-style salute.
Now, let’s see how he weasels out of this one.
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Says Foxman, a tool of the Republican right-wing who degraded what was once a great and very widely-respected non-partisan organization, and who stood silently by and sometimes actively promoted all the anti-Obama lies and birtherism. Foxman–you have no one to point to for Trump’s rise except yourself. You turned the ADL into a tool of the liars and haters on the right. You are no better than Trump.
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I guess the complaint about the hands is that he should have known what it would look like, thus should have known better.
The more disturbing part is the loyalty oath. It’s not unusual for a candidate to encourage people to go vote, but to swear to vote for him is over the line in a democracy. There’s a moral issue with having people swear an oath to vote for you. And the optics are bad to boot - it’s not hard at all to draw parallels with a fascist cult of personality. So he should have known better twice.
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To be fair, that does say “commit” - note that it steers clear of making it an oath or a pledge. It’s the difference between “I plan to do this” and “I swear I will do this” - most people are going to feel the binding of an oath more keenly.
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