Discussion for article #227006
Waste of time!! The problem is not with consent when it comes to investigating and prosecuting sexual assault the problem comes with claims of sexual assault being substantiated. It is still going to come down to âShe said, He saidâ, especially when the victim was intoxicated and canât recall whether or not they consented, which tends to be what prevents the allegations from being prosecuted.
Because what does consent mean? Do they have to actually say âI consentâ, âI would like to engage in sexual activity now, pleaseâ, etcâŚ
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The legislation says itâs also not consent if the person is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep.
Thatâs pretty simple.
And, yes, consent means actually saying so unless you go with nodding heads, etc. When my son was a freshman at a University of CA campus in the late 90s they were already teaching that approach to incoming students. We parents snickered some in private because the dialog sounded somewhat like an international treaty negotiation, but, hey, it worked for them. Nobody was unclear on consent for sexual activity, minor to major, and everybody went home happy.
Yes, you do need to ask for or confirm consent. But itâs not like youâll ever need to worry about that.
This bill should be vetoed.
Lack of enthusiasm isnât the same as lack of consent. People consent to do things unenthusiastically.
Being passive during sex isnât the same as being raped. This bill treats those the same.
This bill says that silence isnât evidence of consent. Actually, when someone is conscious-and-unthreatened, silence is evidence of consent.
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They have to buy my app, iConsent, which provides proof that both parties have consented. Only $3.99 on iTunes.
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So if I am with my wife and we are getting intimate, I need to stop and say âBabe, I would like to engage in sex now do you consent?â.
This of course is stupid, because what determines consent?
Does someone taking their own clothes off? Does them laying down naked? Does them getting on top? etc⌠or do they have to verbalize consent?
That why this is STUPID!!! Because if that was the standard then probably every single person here has engaged in sex without consent.
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So nodding the head is consent? Do you see how ambiguous it means to give consent? Which is why the standard before was NO, pushing away, trying to prevent clothes from being removed, trying to leave, intoxicated beyond the ability to give consent etc⌠means, You do no have consent!
Pretty soon, you will have to enter into a written agreement that is notarized and witnessed.
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âSilence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent.â
And that will be the lynchpin of the GOPâs Supreme Court case against the bill. They will claim that if the women isnât willing to âtake personal responsibilityâ for stopping her own rape, if she isnât the right kind of person, then it isnât the governmentâs role to right this wrong.
As with other womenâs related bill, I wonder if the GOP will filibuster unless a religious exemption is attached. Something like:
"If this bill violates the rapistâs sincerely held beliefs (that he is not a rapist), then they just have to fill out a form and then gets to pretend the law doesnât exist.
You married the woman and you still donât know? Sorry justa, but at that point you are at her mercy.
Only in CaliforniaâŚ
Another âCalifornia stupidâ law.
(Sorry if the following post contains some vulgarity, there really was no way to avoid it).
Dear justamarine ⌠you sound a little rapey to me.
For every woman Iâve been with, unless she is all over me, actively involved in taking off our clothes, talking dirty (or at least playful), laughing or breathing heavy, is wet, and is stroking me, unless all those things are happening I stop. That is my standard for consent. Unless her mind, body and involuntary reactions are all aligned then something is wrong. I stop, find a way to make her feel safe, and find out where she is.
Not surprisingly Iâve never been threatened with a rape charge. If you are reviewing case law in your head to see if what she is giving you is âtechnically consentâ, then that sex, whether consensual or not, will be lousy. Not to mention, you know, you would be a horrible human being.
Frankly, consent is not like a plane ticket, where you give it at the beginning and then strap in for the ride. Consent has to be given continuously throughout the act as a women is allowed to change her mind at anytime, for any reason. If DURING the act I feel her go dry (once again, sorry for the vulgarity), see she isnât participating anymore, or I just get a sense that basically her mind has drifted and the act may have moved from great sex to simply masturbating with another human being, I stop. Yes, it is very hard at time; but not only is it physically possible, it is the only moral, ethical, and frankly legal thing to do. And guess what, if you stop, make her feel safe and talk to her, the great sex almost always comes back. That is my standard for consent.
For you âmen-who-find-it-difficult-to-judge-consentâ (aka rapey men), a good rule of thumb is that unless she is saying âYesâ continuously throughout, or making other, um, âconfirmatory noisesâ, then you should stop. Youâll either find out that you need to change your technique (and every future partner will thank her profusely) or you will have stopped a regrettable experience, either legal or illegal.
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And justamarine, to answer your question:
From your post it seems you have a difficult time judging consent. To help you, rather than asking your future girls about consent, how about you just go back to your former partners and ask them. This exercise may be put your past, um, difficulties, in judging consent in a different light.
As a woman whoâs had her share of encounters with men like some others on this thread (at least one of whom strikes me as quietly creepier even than your target), I thank who- or whatever is responsible for the fact that theyâve been outnumbered by men like you. (And I love that you point out the, um, tactical advantage as well as the ethical imperative of your approach.) I actually have some sympathy for a horny college kid whoâs half-blinded by his hormones; but thatâs all the more reason to make rules as clear as possible, which they have been on many campuses for some time now, apparently with no ill effect on the ultimate experience. And the National Organization for Men guy quoted in the story â âthis is nice for the accusersâ â strikes me as the perfect poster boy for the policy. Jokes about contracts are cute, but real consent is actually a pretty clear thing, and the results eminently more satisfying. Unless the guyâs in it for power, or just wants a substitute for his rubber doll, maybe.
Define âunthreatenedâ. If someone feels pressured, then silence isnât necessarily evidence of consent, it may well be evidence of intimidation. Having to gain assent in some form - nodding, moving closer, even a simple âuh-huhâ isnât a fucking onerous burden.
Being passive during sex isnât even addressed in this bill. The closest it comes to is saying that lack of protest or resistance, and silence, donât equal consent. Yes, it does say that âAffirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any timeâ - what that means is âshe said yesâ doesnât mean she canât say âstopâ. It doesnât mean she has to keep shouting âyesâ through the whole encounter.
It means that you canât just start fucking and then assume youâre past the point where it can get ugly. Pay attention to your partner. If theyâre being a cold fish, ask âhey, is everything ok? do you want me to stop?â - if that behavior isnât unusual, then pay attention for smaller warning signs. An individual can be passive without being withdrawn, for example. Hereâs a big indicator: do they look like theyâre happy, or like they just want to get it over with? If itâs the latter, get a clue, show some emotional connection with your lover, and ask if theyâre ok.
And while young adults in college may need to be told that, pretty much anyone whoâs had more than one relationship or sexual experience shouldnât, man.
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[quote]
Lawmakers say consent can be nonverbal, and universities with similar policies have outlined examples as maybe a nod of the head or moving in closer to the person.[/quote]
In other words: Stop being a rapey fucktard, and pay attention to your loverâs body language and mood, dumbass.
Yes. Why the fuck is this so difficult for you to understand? Do you just jump on people?
snort! That idea actually has some possibilities for the youngest members of the âI got someâ club.
According to the State of California and many on this forum, if she doesnât verbalize consent then I could be charged with sexual assault.