Discussion: Blue States Form Climate Alliance After Trump Withdraws From Paris Pact

We’re NOT all in this together.

I think an analogy on this would be seeing a hysterical person who’s drowning, trying to save them, then realizing that the person is so completely unglued that they force you to make a choice of saving yourself or them but not both. At some point, we have to make progress. The feral trumpers who think this was simply wonderful are getting left behind. regardless of what the Left wants/believes The issue is how much more time and energy do we want to spend on bringing people along who don’t get that they’re drowning.

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He’s already TRYING…he and the cowardly troll Sessions are trying to nail us for being ‘sanctuary’ cities. Fine. Stay the FK outta my state…oh and all that revenue you try and suck from my state? Keep playing games…you’ll see some ‘state’s rights’ you’re always whining about…

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Ha, ha, ha! He’s much too chickenshit to come to California. Scawy, scawy, scawy for donnie. Better, Saudi Arabia, where all the gilt makes him feel at home.

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Some men just think everyone else is as big an egotistical self centered asshole as they are.

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The ‘lefties’??? Are you KIDDING? Let’s see Texas, Eastern Colorado, Eastern Washington, etc. etc. Do you think these idiots are ‘lefties’???

Half of me cheers this move because it needs to be done, but the other half is extraordinarily sad because it signals a slit in the fabric of America. Ultimately 1/2 of Americans are going to be stuck in a fly over country dystopia with little or no hope.

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I agree that the cities are leaning progressive.

It’s the American population at large that isn’t.

We might not be able to convince the conservative districts. And I say “might” because I think that the GA-06 election is going to be the real test as to whether the demographic shifts really are favoring Dems politically. I think we will win but it remains to be seen.

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Not once the National Mar-a Lago Seawall and Dyke Act is passed.

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Is that you, Donald?

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TIme is running out and there are only but so much in the way of resources. If you believe you can get through to those who don’t want to be gotten through to, please try.

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Thats not how politics works. You’ve got to make an argument and appeal to peoples self interest. You have to show how limiting CO2 will help people on the street level.

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Please point out where I said that only lefties were talking about this.

It is an argument for idiots, and those who like idiots.
Smart liberals and progressives should know this.

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American Evangelicals seem to have certain fixed beliefs: guns good; abortion bad; gays bad; women bad; climate change hoax; black civil rights bad; men in charge good. That’s about it. I agree that they can’t be reasoned with or persuaded. They won’t think, they believe. They’ve turned themselves into a scourge upon the nation.

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There is an economic argument. Climate change costs money, some estimate trillions of dollars in losses due to its effects.

And then of course there is the money to be made on Green technology and manufacturing. But Trump is too much of a dolt to move out of the 1950s in his head. Maybe he’ll bring back the Edsel too.

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Mar-a-Lago is sinking as we speak.

I was thinkming about the ramifications of blue states following through with individual pledges to uphold the specifics of the Paris Climate Agreements, and i’m not sure how that will all play out. This could very well end up pitting states against each other more-so than the current level. Right now, there is a clear dividing line between red and blue based mostly along cultural and ideological grounds on issues like LBGT rights and healthcare and other issues that are not core to the survival of the planet. The Paris Accord is vastly different, and is taking the human species into uncharted territory where our collective survival is at stake. Yes, states can individually make an issue out of this by choosing to do the right thing, and other states can elect to sit on the sidelines, but the consequences of inaction are much greater than anything we’ve yet seen. There are currently product and conference boycotts over bathroom bills and reproductive rights bills, and voter repression bills and other issues that reflect the differences in our interpretations of the Constitution, but this effort by blue states to go alone with other nations takes the consequences of being idle to a global level. Do you think the travel ban hurt the US tourism industry with foreign tourists? California will soon be a hot-spot destination for global travelers at the expense of any other red state because blue states are friendly territory for sane and rational people in this world. The immediate economic consequences to red states could be huge as the leadership positions in technology and renewable energies shift from red states to blue states. Blue states will incentivize investments and education in those businesses that conform to the Paris Climate Accord while red states get left behind, meaning blue states will economically succeed and read states will lag in every measure of quality of life. There will be population shifts as well, when people migrate to blue states to occupy those jobs in sustainable technologies.

Too long a monologue. Cut to the chase, this may positively further divide our nation.

But climate change doesn’t really operate under the same parameters of politics in so far as there’s only but so far you can “sell it” to people on the street level. There is info. out there as to how limiting CO2 can help people but if they still don’t think it applies to them, I don’t see what else can be said/done to prove it.

In many ways, climate change is visual and has direct effects. It operates on a somewhat sharp level. If you can’t see it and you don’t believe that it affects you, where do you go from there? You’ve got to have a population at least willing to open their minds to it.

@jakester You make a good point: climate change isn’t really about “belief”. There is actual evidence that supports it. It’s not a theory. It’s like I said about tigers: if I show you a pic of a tiger (or an actual tiger) and you say that you don’t believe it exists or that it’s an actual tiger or whatever, then what?

@26degreesrising Of course there’s an economic argument. But Rump’s supporters don’t see renewable energy as economically viable. For a variety of reasons, they think coal and gas are economically viable and tangible. Wind, solar, biofuels are just pie in the sky.

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I will happily serve as a representative for the sane 43% of Texas voters. Where do I sign up?

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Here is something you might remind your church going conservative friends today.

Matthew 12:25
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand."

Trump is moving us into house divided territory.

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The President has already said climate change is a hoax, which is the exact opposite of virtually all scientific and worldwide opinion

While I applaud the sentiment, I wish he’d used a different word than “opinion”. Once a scientific hypothesis is as well supported by research evidence as anthropomorphic climate change is, you don’t get to hold an opinion on it. It becomes, for all practical purposes - and certainly for policy making purposes - a fact, and stays that way unless and until a significant amount of counter-evidence is produced.

Language matters. Those who think climate change is a hoax, or that human activity isn’t a significant driver of it, are the ones who have opinions, and public figures on the side of reason need to realize that the scientific evidence allows them to not use words that place the argument for climate change on the same footing as the argument against it, and that doing so only plays into the hands of climate change deniers, who have been laboring mightily for years to create just such a false dichotomy.

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If some jobs were created they’d see it as viable. Coal is archaic. Manufacturing turbines is not.

@tsp > Mar-a-Lago is sinking as we speak.

Not fast enough.

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