Discussion for article #245928
Nixon was a son-of-a-bitch on multiple levels. But he was also someone who understands foreign policy, as does Kissinger. Granted that the latter can be fairly argued to have crossed into war crimes territory, but he is still a knowledgable expert on former power/foreign relations issues. This posturing 60s-butt hurt sound-bite is very weak sauce and a deflection.
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Then who would be his kind of guy for foreign policy? Has he mentioned anyone really?
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Kissinger and Nixon not only engaged in war crimes, they committed treason by tanking negotiations with Vietnam during the 1968 elections when they held no elected office. When I heard Clinton cite Kissinger’s support, I had the same reaction as Sanders. I’m glad he said it.
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Shhh. Don’t tell that one trick pony poster who mentions Kissinger at least once a day. I thought Hillary’s response there was absolutely right. People forget what Nixon, with the help of Kissinger, did to open relations with China. That was a very important foreign policy achievement.
So, I don’t know if you noticed, but Bernie says during that segment that he wouldn’t talk with Kissinger and not five minutes later he’s extolling the virtues of carrying on discussions with Iran. Which is it Bernie? Do you talk with people who you think are bad actors or don’t you? Make up your mind. And please, wave your finger while Hillary is speaking one more time, you smug fuck.
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Better no one than Kissinger, musgrove.
Chile, Cambodia, Argentina, Iran, Israel…
Need I go on? Kissinger should die in jail.
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I am more than versed in the history. And my statement still stands.
You make it sound like its the only foreign policy person she knows.
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"I happen to believe that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive secretaries of state in the modern history of this country," Sanders said at Thursday's Democratic presidential debate, referring to Clinton citing the former secretary of state's praise for her work in that same position.
He’s right about that.
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Bernie was right to nail Hillary for her embrace of this sociopath with the blood of untold innocents on his hands.
My only complaint is that Bernie should have just come right out and called Kissinger what he is –
a war criminal.
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I have to say this is the first partial democratic debate I have seen. I have not been a fan of Sanders due to his pie in the sky pronouncements of free public college, free healthcare for all, taxes for everybody especially the rich, etc. Clinton, on the other hand, seems to be running her 2008 campaign, not negotiating with “rogue” nations, Kissinger my kinda guy, etc.
Pragmatically, one would be an idiot not to call a former sec of state (Kissinger) for advice. Politically, not so good. Kissinger does have blood on his hands, by any objective observation. But that is the problem with our current government. Too much black and white. No grey. Kissinger does have valid input, but don’t call him your friend.
Tangent: last question on domestic and foreign “heroes”, Sanders nailed it with an eloquent explanation of FDR and the “conservative… wartime Churchill” . Actually felt sorry for Clinton to follow that.
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Heck, no! I’d venture that he’s the only war criminal she is mentored by.
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I kinda feel like Bernie hates Kissinger because Kissinger’s a war criminal.
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“mentored by” is not fair nor accurate. Your earlier comment was legit – this is over the line.
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I don’t think Hillary was endorsing Kissinger or even saying she looks to him for advice — she simply mentioned him in passing in the last debate as a former Secretary of State who said she ran a tight ship when she was in the same job. But I still find Kissinger extremely creepy because that was the era when the U.S. was supporting dictator-torturers around the world (Pinochet, Shah of Iran, etc.) and it jarred me to hear Hillary cite him in a positive way — a bit of an “own goal” because it comes off as tone deaf among progressives, and goes to the argument that she spends too much time in the establishment bubble.
This is not biggest deal in the world and it doesn’t change my (strongly positive) opinion of her in the least, but I do get why it would rub some folks the wrong way. That said, it sounds like she responded tonight in exactly the right way, by turning it back on Sanders and asking “Who do you go to for advice?”
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Fidel Castro is a lot of things – a despot, a dictator, a major improvement in many ways over the dictator he replaced – but I’ve never heard him described as a war criminal. As far as “other communists Sanders admired” you’ll have to be more specific if you want that to sound like anything other than a broad “fellow travelers” McCarthyist smear.
In any event, I don’t recall Bernie saying he would look to any war criminals for foreign policy advice, whereas Hillary just did. There may be a very good pragmatic argument for looking to a wide variety of sources for foreign policy advice, but there should be a line. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld may be very knowledgeable and experienced, but I wouldn’t look to them for advice either.
At some point you have to say “this person’s judgement has been just such a spectacular failure, and their moral code is so utterly lacking, that they do not belong anywhere near the levers of power.” Kissinger is certainly such a case and if Hillary is unable to recognize that, she’s providing powerful evidence for Bernie’s argument that his better judgement is more important than her experience.
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I’m not a Sanders supporter but I hate Kissinger for the same reasons. How can taking social justice personally on the international level be a bad thing?
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I don’t disagree. And while I think Kissinger should stand trial in the Hague, I would still listen to what his perspective is on foreign relation power dynamics. I disagree with large areas of his views, and much of his record, while some I agree with (opening up China for example).
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According to Seymour Hersh, in his book The Price of Power, Kissinger did nothing more, in this particular instance, than to alert Nixon that a truce with North Vietnam was imminent. The rest was on Nixon. If you call Kissinger’s behavior in this instance “treason,” then you must spend all day designating treasonous behavior.
Come on CarlosF. you only need to go back one notch to know that is not true. Even, if Mcnamara regretted it.