I live in Texas and a social kiss greeting doesn’t feel abnormal at all.
The thing is, like a handshake, a social kiss is normally a negotiated move, involving eye contact and a little back-and-forth between the parties as to exactly how close you get, whether it involves touching the other person’s shoulders or back or arm, that kind of thing. It’s basically an acknowledgement and an agreement between the parties where they stand with each other.
There’s a lot of difference between a handshake that’s vigorously pumped, one party smiling and drawing the other into a semi-hug slap on the back, or “condolence” shake where you gently pat the other party’s arm and keep it there while talking, or a disdainful limp-handed one that’s only a slight remove from “you may kiss my ring”. They all send very, very different messages.
If he’d taken her by her hands and kept them between them, so there was plenty of distance between their torsos, it would have felt far less intimidating and far less creepy, because she still could have moved back or at least controlled the distance between their faces. But that’s not what he did. He grabbed her and pulled her to him, kissed her cheek, then practically shoved her back out of his way - a dominance move.
‘For his part, Trump swore in a filing, “I do not know plaintiff Alva Johnson or recall having any interactions with her.”’ So he does this so often no one particular instance stands out?
On this forum filled with decent, progressive guys, we still get the litany of: 1) it didn’t last long, what’s the problem? 2) she didn’t scream; 3) I would love it if a strange woman kissed me (liar, it would not be your magic pixie dream girl, dude); 4) it was not sufficiently violent; 5) “these gold-diggers”; 6) grandmas often give yucky kisses; and last but not least 7) she is a Trump supporter, thus deserved it as punishment.
As I said previously, I do not necessarily agree with her accusation of battery. Nor disagree. But alot of the folks speaking up sound a whole lot like rape apologists rather than rational judges.
I know, 109 replies, 5 hours in, too late for this rant to make any impression. But seriously, supposedly caring, feminist men. Take a minute to think.
I presume a lot of it has to do with the many variants of greetings around the world. I spent a lot of time in Germany, where greetings with a kiss on both cheeks was quite normal (especially with the younger generations, air-kisses, but still with the same motion).
There’s no good hard-and-fast rule that’s broadly applicable which would make this easy to adjudicate.
I agree this muddies the water, but Biden suffers from a similar viewpoint on this kind of interaction. Because he thinks it would make a woman feel good to have her head patted or her shoulders massaged, it’s ok. For Trump, this is someone working for his campaign - and she’s black. - so he gets to kiss because he thinks it’s ok and even better because she’s black. In both instances, the men assume they have the right to invade a woman’s personal space because they, the men, think it’s a good idea.
It’s not battery or assault. It is a demonstration of why women often feel more vulnerable physically. Men too often presume their touching is welcome, when it often simply is not. Women usually grin and bear it because it seems too minor to call out. If it goes a little further, some of us have been known to push back, raise our voices, and take our space back.
This interaction was awkward but not particularly unusual. It has happened to me and to other women here, I am sure. I didn’t sue, and I wouldn’t. Just as men are beginning to understand that commenting on a woman’s attire is usually inappropriate unless you’re close, and it’s an not overtly sexual remark in a public setting, they need to understand that starting with a handshake is probably just fine
Yes, but this isn’t Germany. And Trump is not a connoisseur of world culture (he eats NY pizza w/ a fork and thinks his burrito restaurant is …?sudamericano?). We don’t kiss on both cheeks. We shake hands (technically in the US, women don’t traditionally shake hands either, but that is another etiquette story). If he simply shook her hand in a normal fashion ( like he did with everyone else in line), that would likely judged okay even if she had a handshake issue [I’m told that some fundamentalist Jewish men, plus Mike Pence, are not allowed to touch women].
No, she likely would not win in court. Like I said, I’ve been on two sex crime juries, so I’ve seen the jurors. But I am standing strong with the “she is a trump supporter so she deserves it” is NOT an acceptable prosecution.
Now there, I’m with you 10000000%. With a few more zeroes, but I think you get the point.
For the rest, as an introvert who doesn’t want anyone touching me without my approval, all of these politicians and the rest of the masses hugging people and kissing babies and all that just is weird, anyway. So at least for me, I guess, I didn’t see anything in that clip which set him aside from the normal creepy of those interactions, if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I don’t disagree. I originally thought the vid was par for the course. Sometimes, even us girls have to get woke, since we are tied into the system. What set me on the edge was the responses. Folks talking about battery (NOT ASSAULT), but excusing on horrible basis.
Hey, wasted my afternoon on this thread, while all the cool kids were talking about Gorka!
