Discussion: Defending Senate Repeal Effort, Trump Trashes Obamacare

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#81

““Well I just heard today for the first time that Obama knew about Russia
a long time before the election, and he did nothing about it,” Trump
said in an excerpt of his interview on Fox News’ “Fox and Friends”
released Friday. “But nobody wants to talk about that.””

Well he can trash the ACA all he wants.

But in the meantime, can he discuss his admittance that Russia hacked the election? And that he is trashing Obama for doing nothing, while he himself is doing … nothing. And he is also the the benefactor of Russian collusion and interference in ensuring he won and doing … nothing.

He can answer that first, then discuss the ACA.

Oh right, he is too busy tweeting from the john to address those issues in a coherent manner.

#82

Even that would be more responsibility than I’ve ever heard him take for anything; he’s pathologically unable to admit even the slightest error or be associated with even a whiff of imperfection. He operates more on the Bart Simpson “I didn’t do it” level of ridiculous denial of the obvious. But hey, there’s always a first time, right? He could grow in office, all that. HA HA HA HA HA now you tell one.

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#83

Oh, is he pivoting? At long last…

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#84

It takes awhile to turn around such a big tub of goo :stuck_out_tongue:

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#85

:laughing:

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#86

Whether or not this vile excuse for a healthcare bill passes into law, the GOP has to be repeatedly labeled what it has become, and what Hillary Clinton has properly called it: The Death Party 1
It’s about time the progressives in this country took control of the meme that ours is a country by, of and FOR the people. Not providing healthcare to our citizens is definitively a moral wrong. Taking it away is a crime against humanity made worse by turning over the vast savings thereby achieved to the very richest people in the land. Thousands of people will die to make this happen. Thousands upon thousands more will suffer disenfranchisement, penury, and pain to achieve The Death Party’s goal of rewarding the already-rewarded.

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#87

When Trump takes away vaccination programs from children, you can only presume that somebody wants a lot of children to die. I think the word people are struggling to put their fingers on is “euthenasia.”

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#88

Unfortunately, I imagine, a lot of republican voters would look at Mike and say its sad thing indeed for this young man, but why is it my responsibility to take care of him? Why doesn’t his family or church care for him? They simply do not share our views that there is a moral obligation of our government to care for all its citizens. This is why they think they deserve tax cuts (which aren’t even for them!) more than Mike living a fulfilling existence. Stirring empathy in these voters is not going to work the way it does on democrats. It has to be directly about them, not the collective. Take a look again at how trump’s budget guy Mike Mulvaney framed it – that they were determined to prioritize the needs of those paying the bills first!

The only chance we have to stop this is to rally trump’s working class and rural voters to realize the GOP is acting against their interests. They are the ones that have the leverage to convince their senators to vote against the bill. Ads will have to run in the media venues they pay attention to. Spell it out for them – protections for pre-existing conditions, reinstating lifetime caps and denying them prescription drug benefits puts them personally at grave risk of bankruptcy and/or death. THEM. THEIR CHILDREN. THEIR MOM AND DAD. Not “Mike” – not other people – THEM.

#89

Democrats responded to the Khans with empathy for their grief and respect for their sacrifice and willingness to stand up for what we know is right. Republicans smeared and mocked them. They do not care.

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#90

Yep. That’s why all of the complaints about Democrats’ messaging are just silly. Our messaging is working fine with Democrats. It doesn’t work with Repugs because they are Repugs.

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#91

And how are you going to get the racists to see that diversity is a good thing?

SMH

How do you get the Evangelicals to be ok with women’s rights and LGBTQ rights?

Trump’s voters are unnecessary - they are a minority and their votes were filled out ever so conveniently in 3 key states - you really think that happened because: populism and income inequality?

It was rigged.

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#92

Yes – we have to effectively rally our own – but ask ourselves why should a senator in a red state give a fuck about our protests? They will only respond to those voters in their states who matter to them. That is why I think there needs to be a targeted appeal to those voters – and they aren’t going to care about “Mike” – they are going to care only about themselves.

#93

The problem is that we have been doing that for years and they don’t care because they do not like us, trust us or believe us.

But sure, let’s waste resources trying to convince the Archie Bunkers of America to join the 21st century.

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#94

Yes, and the interminable stories about “how to reach the white working class” are an utter waste of time and effort. They don’t want to be reached, period. If they don’t want affordable healthcare, higher minimum wage, affordable education, and a livable planet because it would “please” the elitists, I say fuck 'em.

All of this handwringing about Ossoff losing drives me nuts too. I live next to Dave Brat’s district - wealthy, highly educated, completely happy in their bubbles. They are happy with their tax cuts and mortgage deductions and couldn’t care less about anyone else. Just because people are educated does not mean they give a damn about anyone else. They all voted for Trump (and didn’t admit it). So nothing surprising about Handel’s win - just another waste of money for the DNC. Ya gotta wonder how smart their strategists are …

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#95

Exactly - you just described Highland Park, Texas perfectly. They are doctors and lawyers and extremely well educated in general but they are assholes.

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#96

And frankly, it annoys the hell out of me that so much time and resources were devoted to the Ossoff race (yes, I was sucked in). He wasn’t going to win, period. Who makes these damn decisions in the DNC? They could use some fresh brains, imo. AND, that we (or the media) are pronouncing it as some sort of referendum. It’s bullshit.

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#97

Yes the general election was rigged. I am talking about the healthcare vote that is likely to pass unless we pick off some GOP votes. I think the only place protests have been effective are in red states that accepted the medicaid expansion. Those voters (even if they went for trump) are kicking up a ruckus along with democrats. However, I still worry that those senators on the fence will be swayed by McConnell. We need to target their voters specifically so they become hysterical at what the GOP is going to do to THEM. And its not a lie. Its the damned fucking truth. But look at the ad the DNC sent me that I posted up thread. Yes – its an appeal to democrats to send money – but I hope they don’t think that message is what is going to deliver any nay votes from senators in purple states.

#98

I have digress here. I’m warily appreciative of fact checking sites like Poltifact or WaPo’s Kessler; when they get it right, it’s all fine, but when they get it wrong things can go OMG off-the-tracks horribly bad.

In this case you should go read the Politifacts write up on the Obama statement - I think they were right on with calling it a lie. Invoking the ‘grandfathering’ language in the ACA’s defense is pretty much a fig leaf… and we do ourselves a disservice by relying on it to justify our side of the story. There were dozens of smart policy makers in the administration who KNEW that the insurers were going to cancel non-compliant policies in droves… Grandfathered or not.

Taking a step back here, I have a theory that our political/media system actually requires our elected leaders to lie to us at some point (or points) in their career. I don’t take it personally, but I do try to gauge the relative level of transgression based on the circumstances at the time. President Obama’s comments were something of a calculated gamble, and in this case they became an effective political cudgel for his opponents. I think this says more about the effectiveness of those opponents in framing the narrative than his skill in creating functional health care policy.

I despise the fact that opposition to the ACA was distilled down to a single stupid playground taunt. But I can’t deny the underlying facts, or lack of facts, about the original statement either.

#99

The DNC had little to do with it.
Mostly, it was the DCCC and Ossoff’s own campaign.

He closed the gap from 24 percentage points to 4 percentage points.
While it’s true that he was unlikely to win, he showed—as did the other three races in ruby-red districts—that Democrats can be competitive, even in those “unwinnable” districts.

It shows pretty clearly that the momentum is with Dems as we gear up for the mid-terms.

And the DNC has a new chairman and a new ass’t chairman—so your complaint about their
“brains” rings hollow.

In order to win back the House, it is necessary to raise and spend a shit-ton of cash on all kinds of races, from the local dog-catcher to every contested Senate race and everything in between.

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#100

We spent too much money on it.

@feathered_head - well I get that but it’s the same problem. A lot of his low education voters didn’t know he was going to crush their entitlements - he promised to leave Medicaid alone - a bunch of times. So I get that.

It’s just that in general they do not believe us or trust us and they do believe him and trust him. To me this reality-divide is an almost intractable problem. I do not know what will ever solve it.

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