UK’s Contact Tracing App To Be Rolled Out In A Couple Of Weeks | Talking Points Memo

[discobot]

LONDON — An official says the British government’s virus contact tracing app will be ready in two to three weeks.

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1306304

[isakindamagic]

Six weeks minimum, and an abject failure.

Funny how the alt-right dreamboat leaders in both countries are screwing it so hard.

[ottis]

Big brother is here! Are you ready? It has been nice. Bye Bye!

[castor_troy]

@ottis

Big brother is here! Are you ready?

Naw, this is Big Brother 2.0. Levels of surveillance we can’t even wrap our heads around in a “democracy”.

And once it’s in the wild, it’s here to stay, and won’t nearly stay at “harmless” contact tracing for Covid.

[bonvivant]

All of our computer use is mined, stored and available. If you spend 14 hours a day on the internet, that data is available along with what sites you visit and what searches you have done. Smartphones are like personal GPS tracking devices. Cars? Many new cars are connected to the internet 24/7, some with cameras both inside and outside the car. You’re on camera in the parking lot of most stores and when you enter and also while shopping. Public transportation and transportation hubs like airports, train and bus stations etc are all equipped with cameras. Some have facial recognition technology. We don’t need to be micro- chipped, but we all will be someday.

You will get chipped — eventually

[castor_troy]

All fair points, but to date, it’s been a relatively fragmented system, so unless they’re following you specifically, you’re relatively ok.

This next leap pulls many of the strings together, in a very easy and enticing package for governments to use for all sorts of shit.

Simplest thing I can think of, they won’t even have to bother breaking up your protest. They’ll give orders to disperse, then go home.

And arrest every attendee who didn’t disperse a few days later at home, having just pulled up the tracking data to verify who was in the zone and where they went.

Something that would take tons of time, money and effort right now becomes something that you can get at the click of a button.

[aduzik]

I expect Apple and probably Google to block this from their app stores. The tech companies developed a system for public health agencies to use in developing contact tracing apps. It emphasizes privacy and requires explicit user consent to move any data off the device. They’ve already made a few changes in response to criticism to improve the system’s privacy. But the NHS made a huge show of rejecting it because, well, they intend to personally track people on a massive scale. They’ve clearly stated it’s their intention to violate the privacy of anyone who uses their app.

But here’s the catch: both iPhones and Androids block the kind of Bluetooth access the NHS would need for their app to work and have so far flatly rejected all demands to make any exceptions. I have more familiarity with Apple’s policies so I can’t speak to how Google will handle this, but even if the NHS has figured out a way to trick the phone into activating the Bluetooth, Apple doesn’t take kindly to apps that try to do an end run around their privacy policies. Both companies are very likely to block it and it will hopefully never see the light of day.

[cervantes]

@bonvivant

You’re on camera

And much more so in the UK.

[castor_troy]

The problem won’t be the app stores, per se. Once the code and methodology is out there, governments will tweak it to do things like self-install on a push and operate fully in the background.

Bad enough that players like the NSA already have toys like this, this will massively expand who can play.

[cervantes]

@castor_troy

Once the code and methodology is out there, governments will tweak it to do things like self-install on a push and operate fully in the background.

Not as easy as you might think, at least not at the moment.

[castor_troy]

You’ve not heard about a guy named Bezos and a Middle Eastern country?

The tech is already there. It’s just in limited hands.

[aduzik]

I can’t rule out the idea that agencies like the NSA have currently unknown hacks that would let them forcibly remotely install apps. In all likelihood they do have a few in reserve. But those kinds of hacks also have a very limited lifespan. In every previous case, the vendors quickly patch the hole and push out an update to kick the bad guys back out. It’s just not practical to do a widespread invasive exploit at scale.

[aduzik]

The Bezos case is interesting because the attacker is believed to have spent tens of millions of dollars and “burnt” a security flaw to target one guy only. But any time an exploit like that is in the wild you have, at best, a few days to use it before it’s closed back up. That’s at odds with the notion of deploying an app to millions of phones and preventing it from being removed.

[castor_troy]

Very fair and reasonable points, thanks! So maybe the track will be that governments take the China route and require citizens to install the tracking software, instead. And refuse to let Apple and Android sell there unless they allow the app, at least in that locale.

[cervantes]

@castor_troy

You’ve not heard about a guy named Bezos and a Middle Eastern country? The tech is already there. It’s just in limited hands.

We’ve already discussed the current project led by Apple and Google. I won’t re-post the whole thing right now but here’s how I concluded:

@cervantes

Contact-tracing is a powerful tool that can be used to control the spread of the virus. Yes, as with everything else on our mobile devices, there is a risk that it can be abused. We have to decide for ourselves (1) whether Apple or Google have a record of doing enough over the years to mitigate the threat to our privacy; and (2) whether any protections they further include are sufficient for us to enable this sort of automated contact-tracing on our mobile devices.

[castor_troy]

@cervantes

(1) whether Apple or Google have a record of doing enough over the years to mitigate the threat to our privacy

@cervantes

(2) whether any protections they further include are sufficient for us to enable this sort of automated contact-tracing on our mobile devices.

Your OneWordAnswer™: No.

[cervantes]

@castor_troy

As I said, you have to decide for yourself. No one is going to make you enable the Apple-Google software framework, let alone download and install an app, let alone use the app to report that you’re infected. And only when you take that last step does anything actually happen.

If you don’t want to be part of this contact-tracing system, then no automated trace of your contacts will be used to help control the pandemic. It’s a decision you can make.

 

@castor_troy

Your OneWordAnswer™: No.

No, that’s your   OneWordAnswer™ and you’re welcome to stick to it.

[castor_troy]

@cervantes

No one is going to make you enable the Apple-Google framework software, let alone download and install an app, let alone use the app to report that you’re infected

Let’s take bets on that one. I can see governments saying that you have to have the app installed, or you’re presumed positive and have to undergo mandatory quarantine.

So they’ll make you decide between your freedom of movement or having the app installed. Can’t make you report if you’re positive-- MAYBE-- but remember that it automatically flags anyone who came near it, so you can get swept up in it if you happened to walk by an infected person in the grocery store.

[cervantes]

@castor_troy

I can see governments saying that you have to have the app installed, or you’re presumed positive and have to undergo mandatory quarantine.

I was talking about things here in the US. Are you as well?

[castor_troy]

I can certainly see States taking some action like that. Can also see lawsuits, but while all that plays out, people would have to either follow it or be essentially on house arrest.