No, President Trump has not won his pressure campaign to get the Ukrainian government to manufacture dirt on his opponents.
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1253720
This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1253720
1 Like
I like that you’re calling it like it is- “fabricate” evidence against Biden- rather than the deceptive though ostensibly more neutral “investigate” Biden.
16 Likes
“Trump Still Hasn’t Forced Ukraine To Fabricate Dirt On Biden”
Doesn’t matter. This is all he needed:
Every day, all day, the media will now be talking about, and we will have to worry about, just how threatened and co-opted Ukraine’s government actually is and how frighteningly willing they are going to be to bow to the CONTINUED pressure the GOP/Trump is putting on them. This is a major win for Trump. It functions as false validation of everything they’ve been doing and it’s a fucking outrage.
ETA: I just read the blog post…and it’s right on point.
“It should also be noted that the President of Ukraine publicly announcing his intent to investigate Burisma and 2016 collusion by Ukraine on behalf of the Clinton campaign would probably have been all the Trump campaign and the White House really ever wanted. This has never been about investigations. It’s about validating conspiracy theories for consumption in US domestic politics. That would have been quite a lot of validating.”
Trump and the GOP state media propaganda machine have now won. Make no mistake. Even if he’s impeached and even if he’s magically somehow thrown out of office, they have won. Ukraine needs to be punished severely if we take the WH.
16 Likes
From the above, “The company’s owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, had used his official position as a minister in Yanukovych’s government to dole out gas drilling permits to himself.”
This almost seems like a Tea-pot Dome Scandal territory.
7 Likes
That’s my impression. It appears that they’re throwing the dog a very small bone to keep it from whining.
17 Likes
It would be the the most fantastic thing if the Ukrainians said " yes we are doing this only because Donald Trump demanded it & and will cut off our financial support if we don’t. Also he said if we don’t … we can forget about calling the United States when the Russian tanks roll in"
Oh … gosh Mr. Trump … we weren’t supposed to tell about that part ?
8 Likes
While the Ukrainian Government is stuck in bind, there is no way as Trump trashes around that they toss him a life-line. It would undercut Democratic support for Ukraine. Better bet - which they are doing - is to look like the aggrieved party, and then force the “anti-communist” Republicans who so profess to oppose Trump’s master Putin to hold firm. No way they take the extra heat of supporting Trump on this. My guess is that the Ukrainians further leverage this to their advantage, as Republicans have to pretend their was no quid pro quo by giving the Ukrainians what they want.
All this is Zalynsky protecting himself domestically, and (likely) nothing further being said, but the new prosecutor investigating the old prosecutor.
And I might add that Ukraine getting more aid is a good thing. Obama did a lot of great things, but not responding forcefully by giving the Ukrainians defensive weaponry when Putin attacked them will go down in history as one of his biggest mistakes.
P.s. the real risk is that the Chinese “give” Trump something, and try to use it to get a deal to end the trade war that sells out our interests. They may decide that Trump is so desperate for a win, and anything to help him politically that he will sell out the US. That is why Trump’s effort at a shake down is so dangerous re the Chinese. They really do hold the whip hand over him.
16 Likes
Ukraine is trying to thread the needle here, trying to placate Trump and cover their backside if Biden eventually wins in 2020.
7 Likes
Ramping up For Swift Boat 2.0
When has outright lying, deception and character assassination ever stopped Republicans
They certainly have a rich history and now social media to fan the flames .
Will the networks (except for Sinclair) have the guts to deny them a platform for the lies?
12 Likes
Trump has made Zelensky’s position much weaker than it was—both domestically and as it relates to Russia’s invasion.
This is likely intended to prop up Zelensky with his constituents, and make Trump believe that Zelensky is bending to his will.
15 Likes
-
That is one thing that needs to be discussed, leverage blatant or veiled it is there. And that means anything developed “Now” in terms of Biden has a layer of suspicion attached. And that is not a vague suspicion either, it is out there and visible. This applies to anything that China might suddenly develop. Either of the two countries can apply resources and skills to creating evidence. If the return is worth, they will.
-
And again, what the hell is this letting the Russians off the hook routine? It will nullify and smear every individual and entity involved in determining and warning about Russian election interference.
6 Likes
Yes - continiued- is key … no doubt it has continued … and probably is getting fierce and nasty … Trump is in deep doo doo and at this point his henchmen will be willing to utilize … uh … well… remember “enhanced interrogation techniques” … let’s call this " enhanced persuasion techniques" … “highly enhanced”
1 Like
It will be interesting to see what China manufactures about Warren. lol. Maybe something interesting from Ancestry.com, or fake emails allegedly showing Warren trying to bribe them to show she has Native American ancestry, lol. Trump is desperate. He will throw anything out there.
6 Likes
I eagerly await the results of this investigation when they tell the world that Trump and Rudy are full of shit and that Joe Biden in no way influenced the decision to fire Shokin and Lutsenko. This whole affair has the stench of Trump criminality writ large.
8 Likes
But what indeed have they won? The dangerous precedent that the President can attack his enemies using the instrumentality of state? Pretty sure that non-Trumpists will want to smack that down pretty quickly.
Impeachment target confirmed. Engage, engage, engage.
12 Likes
From an interview in the Boston Globe:
Ruth Bader Ginsburg was asked what historians will see when they look back on this period in U.S. history. She responded: “An aberration.”
24 Likes
13 Likes
I’m not sure that Trump has won anything at all. This is a very bad look in the sense that one watches a gangster movie and observes the Mom and Pop Grocery store owners hand over the protection payment to the mobsters. Ukraine is acting like a vassal state and I’m betting this is not going over well for them domestically. I see Trump and the Ukraine as both being losers and I’m pretty certain the Ukrainians will settle out their side. I don’t know about us.
21 Likes
What’s up with donnie waiving the visa requirements for Poland…???
Any thoughts?
3 Likes