Satire In The US Has A Trump Problem | Talking Points Memo

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://talkingpointsmemo.com/?p=1281457
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Not satire but a kick in the ass from the home folks:

"We Kentuckians know that our word is our bond. Oaths are the most solemn of promises, and their breach results in serious reputational — and sometimes legal — consequences.

President Donald Trump will soon be on trial in the Senate on grounds that he breached one oath. Senate Leader Mitch McConnell is about to breach two."

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Satire doesn’t have a Trump problem (Bush wasn’t funny either, how quickly people forget), the world has satire problem:

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When reality becomes too ridiculous to believe, satirizing reality becomes difficult if not impossible.

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We do satire here on TPM. Very well, I might add.

W/r/t Trump…to some degree he is “immune”. But I have always believed that Trump derives his “immunity” from a comprehensive and thorough army of enablers…

  • dozens and dozens of lawyers and $$$$$$$$$ to buy them and a lot more

  • The BothSider elements of the Fourth Estate

  • People like American and foreign oligarchs

  • FOX

  • The RWNJ judges

  • SCOTUS

  • The GOP Senate

  • The GOP voters

  • Propaganda outlets too numerous to mention here

  • Barr’s control of the DOJ

  • A voter-plan to render Democratic votes useless

  • A Democratic electorate 50% of which is still unaware of the danger to the country and the world itself the dangers Trump presents

  • And much much MUCH more

Trump’s lizard-brain is not driving this, any more than insane tyrants through the years have “ruled-by-their-wits”. It’s the social organization that counts.

If Trump did not have these things, he would have been removed from Office years ago and would have been the subject of pity, not satire.

To satirize a man a criminal and evil as Trump is not a task I would want to do for a living:

ETTD works in the comedic world as well

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Take our President. Please!

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If Richard Nixon had even a choice few of the items you list he would never have resigned and would have fulfilled his 2nd 4 year term.

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Reality - Trump has never faced any consequences of his awful behavior in 3 years. None whatsoever. That’s not funny.

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Great piece and dead-on. For what it’s worth, a friend of a friend published a short satyrical novel on Amazon that I think achieved something new in explaining the Trump presidency: Odoacer by Vincent Sinjenour.

https://www.amazon.com/Odoacer-Novel-Vincent-Sinjenour/dp/1709223650/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=odoacer&qid=1577373172&sr=8-2.

The novel approaches Trumpism through a Bannonesque puppet master, sort of a James Bond villain, who controls the President’s irrational messaging in furtherance of a surprising end. In tackling how and why that message resonates in Trump Country, it attempted something that the satirists critiqued mostly ignored (the Black Jeopardy slid being an exception). I thought it was terrific and really funny. It’s a shame it hasn’t gotten more exposure.

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That just goes to show that what’s ridiculous isn’t necessarily funny.

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Satire only works when the culture is sufficiently cohesive that there is a common frame of reference.

But when was the last time you encountered a Bible-thumper with a sense of humor? There are 10s of millions of them, and they constitute Trump’s support base.

And how about right-wingers? (They overlap heavily with Bible-thumpers, but there are many of them who are secular). Their “humor” is either heavy, obvious sarcasm, usually directed downward on the social scale (traditionally, humor consists of the less powerful satirizing the arrogant pretensions of the more powerful); or it is out-and-out nasty sadism pretending to be humor.

Genuine satire simply wouldn’t resonate with these groups.

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Sometimes channel surfing I’ll come across a religious-variety show that has a guest a “Christian” comedian. I’ll give it a few minutes and ponder “This is what these people find funny?”. The Pharisees/ S&M stuff really goes over my head.

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Can’t read this without having my 2016 Daily Show thoughts dredged up:

Jon Stewart retiring close to trump’s election was a real blow for me and it’s hard for me to extricate the two events from one another, even though I know it’s not a causal relationship. Poor Mr. Stewart and his writing staff had to sift through more piles of shit (AKA Fox clips) than I would wish upon my worst enemy, and I imagine that hurt him to his soul (I can barely hear 2 seconds of said garbage without becoming enraged for hours, imagining the people like some own family members who buy it wholesale). However, there was a real change when Noah took over, a change that I can only describe subjectively:

I’ll ignore analysis of comparing them as comedians and just say I find Stewart’s delivery funny and Noah’s delivery not funny. But that is not highly important: I felt for years that Fox news and its influence was an insidious brain-poison in our country, priming people to hate Democrats and see them as the mortal enemy. And Jon Stewart’s perspective was appointment TV, IMPORTANT TV, as his satire de-fanged their influence somewhat. Not totally of course, maybe not much at all, but watching The Daily Show you knew many, many people who also felt disgusted by Fox’s odious rhetoric were out there, watching along.

Then Noah takes over and there’s an explicit goal to not pick on fox anymore. It’s quite possible this was a good business decision for Viacom, but I felt like I lost something vital. If Noah draws younger audiences, good for him, but it seems like the show no longer thinks it’s profitable to appeal to people like me – a liberal white male stuck between Gen X and the Millenials, who feel like the right wing is always winning every message war and who long to see them taken down a peg regularly.

Stewart gave years of work and probably a great portion of his sanity to fighting the stench that comes out of the fox-hate-factory. He doesn’t owe me or anyone anything more than that. But his voice and influence is missed. And I seriously doubt that the morning shows on the Hate-Your-Neighbor network feel compelled to tell their audience how awful Trevor Noah is, and run story after story on how wrong and evil and hypocritical he is, like they did with Stewart. Because he doesn’t scare their bosses in the least.

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Given the diminishing power of satire vis a vis Trump, it is a good thing that we don’t make fun of him here all the time…

I would say that Trump is being ridiculed more than satirized. What’s more, this seems like a very reasonable approach. He’s ridiculous every day, frequently in a new way (e.g., talking about how many times he needs to flush or ranting about windmills). His supporters will not be persuaded by satire, and although Trump is dangerous to our nation he’s absurd in a way that makes traditional satire impotent. I love seeing him ridiculed by Colbert, Seth Meyers, etc. They help me go to sleep at night

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Another part of his “immunity” is stuff that needs to be made fun, isn’t funny.

Like his rapidly declining mental health. Do that on a late night show, and it comes off as making fun of mental illness, not Trump specifically.

Or do a piece about how he needs to have his ass kicked in on regular basis…like several times a day…and see how fast they cry martyr and send the Secret Service to pay a visit.

Basically, republicans, and Trump in particular, are horrible at comedy. But what makes it worse is their “form of comedy” basically consists of “owning the libs” by saying/doing insulting/demeaning things. And if you turn that table on them, they are the biggest snowflakes in the universe, immediately crying foul and hoisting themselves up on a cross.

Satire never has, historically. In fact, it rarely reaches a broad audience. That’s what made Steven Colbert’s show on CC so refreshing. Not because it was satire, but because good satire is so hard to come by.

ETA: One other key thing to note, is “satire” is a specific form of comedy. I don’t think all the examples given in this article qualify. Colbert did it wonderfully, by assuming the position of a “straight” man, republican talking head. And then made absurd comments without a hint of self-reflection. He rarely just told jokes…that was the wellhouse for Stewart and the Daily Show. Because telling jokes isn’t necessarily satire (and usually isn’t).

@theghostofeustacetilley is an example of satire on here. And, just like good satire, if done right, he often catches a bunch of new posters who don’t get that point, and think his serious. That’s a hallmark of good satire.

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Excellent article. It would have been interesting to include the world’s of Pussy Riot and Femen here. Their work can be seen as satirical.

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That’s probably true.

The biggest problem I had with that transition, is doing it in 2016, during a Presidential election cycle. It was a disservice to the viewers, and a disservice to Noah. Transitioning him in, sure…and then hand it all off in 2017. But to do it right in the middle of THAT election? I don’t think the show ever recovered from that mistake.

That being said, Noah seems to have found his rhythm. But its not the same rhythm. Stewart caught “the bosses” attention, because he built up a huge following and made the show a “must watch” piece of TV for millions. Noah hasn’t achieved that. He is merely keeping it going.

(Of course, IMO, they should have gone with Samantha Bee, especially if they were determined to make the shift in 2016. How do you not go with a change to a woman, with the first woman running as a party nominee?? And she absolutely kills it on Full Frontal)

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There’s nothing at all funny about Trump or his administration. If he were simply inept, sure, but Trump is a willing tool of others that is seriously and possibly permanently damaging the country and the rest of the world. IF your job is humor, I think the only way to go about being funny and focusing on Trump is to do it like John Oliver, to focus more on his administration and the damage they’re doing, while making jokes about them along the way. SNL, Colbert, Daily Show, I think all have it wrong (from what I’ve seen) when they just make fun of what he says or does, I think they need to educate and motivate people towards change and if they’re good, they can do that while being funny and entertaining and giving people a bit of a respite from the non-stop shit that is the Trump administration.

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