Discussion:

Discussion for article #233575

This makes me miss Rabin even more than before.

Ron,
This is a fabulous piece and kudos to Josh and his colleagues for offering it here. I’ve just recently ordered Jabotisky’s biography because I’m embarrassed to say how little I know about him beyond the basics. Really appreciate the comparison of Bibi’s diaspora/state continuum stream of zionism versus the statist orientation of Prime Minister Rabin of blessed memory.

FWIW, my wife and I named our youngest daughter Noa, who is 8, after Rabin’s grand daughter, because both of independently and before we knew each other, had been so moved by her words about her grandfather at his funeral.

Finally, not sure if you’d agree, but none of what you’ve written should be construed to suggest Rabin, were he alive today, would have been any more pleased about what we know about the Iranian negotiations than Netanyahu appears to be. He was no pushover. Presumably he’d go about things differently. . .but let us not forget that the stakes in the next few weeks have historical implications that are far more significant than the PM’s rotten behavior.

Thanks Ron. Privileged to read this. And thanks again to Josh et al.

Bruce Levine
New York, NY

Very interesting and informative. From my view on the periphery, so much of the discussion of Israel/Palestine on the left is dominated by the humanitarian/ human rights aspect of the Palestinians (which is very important) that these nuances are pushed to the side. Great writing Ron and thank you Josh for publishing it.

Which bio did you order. I read one of his bios last summer, I think the second I read. Jabotinsky, as is often the case was a better, more complex man than you’d know from many of his followers. It leaves many great questions of history that he died in 1940 since that left him an icon rather than a person when so many of he critical questions and decisions actually came into play.

He was also much more a classical liberal and a democrat than his admirers or haters would grant. Though he and DBG hated each other for most of their lives and DBG continued that enmity after Jabotinsky died, there was a brief period when they both tried to heal the breach between their movements. And in that period, from their letters, they both developed a deep, even profound admiration for each other.

Ron Kampeas, for TPM:

Equally as telling, however, is the venue each man chose for what they hoped would be pronouncements that would shift the gears of history: Rabin, his beloved home turf, the cradle of Zionism; Netanyahu, the Washington whose language and customs he has embraced with preternatural fluency.

I disagree with this particular characterization, Netanyahu doesn’t have a preternatural fluency with DC - he has a preternatural appeal to Republicans, conservatives, reactionaries, and paranoiac conspiracy theorists (if that’s not too redundant).

This is similar to the same mistake journalists repeatedly make and Netanyahu exploits: Just as Likud is not Israel (and neither is Bibi), Republicans aren’t America.

Edited to Add: Hmm. that comes across a little more oppositional than I intended - overall this was a very informative piece, and I appreciate your insights.

Thanks for this fascinating article.

Very informative to one who is lookingat recent eventsand is puzzled by how Netanyahu get’s away with his bad behaviour - tact and diplomacy appear to have no part in the man’s make up. Thanks to Josh for bringing in other voices. I was surprised to read that AIPAC was not in the loop. Any thoughts on doing a piece on what AIPAC folks think or say about the Boehner way of getting this done?

Do a google, they’ve made multiple statements (formal and informal) against it.

What an interesting, illuminating article.

Part of Netanyahu’s campaign of persuasion is convincing U.S. citizens and policy-makers of the imminence of a nuclear armed Iran - he stated in 2012 that Iran would have that ability to produce nuclear weapons within a year. Recently leaked Mossad documents show that Netanyahu has been over-stating Iran’s ability, and a 2012 Mossad cable states that Iran was “not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons”. I suspect Netanyahu will overstate Iran’s progress and abilities when he addresses Congress. I hope the American media analyzes his comments, versus simply reiterating them.

Leaked cables show Netanyahu’s Iran bomb claim contradicted by Mossad

Hillel Halkin is the author of the one I bought.

and here we see the difference between a mensch and a putz. excellent article, thanks.

i’m sure you don’t refer to some imaginary “existential threat,” cause you seem to be able to read.

There is a simple way to figure out why these two men are so different (and it works every time): Follow the Money.

I believe that my government shares a concern about the ability of Iran to obtain a nuclear bomb. Thanks for your kind reply.

Netanyahu’s Zionism is what in German political vernacular would be called 'Völkisch". It loosely translates to ‘tribal’ but really means supercharging nationalism with ethnic belonging. It is still echoed in the reticence of Germany to grant citizenship to (non-ethnic) immigrants. As a cornerstone of hard right political sentiments it seems to be a universal phenomenon (e.g, it also seems to animate US teabaggers in their opposition to immigration reform).

and my government is fortunately most concerned about actual threats to our country.

Great article Josh et all, thank you.

This is exactly why I believe the Livni Herzog alliance is so important. Her parents were Irgun and part of Revisionist Zionism. She has literally crossed the gulf in Israeli politics.

I always think of Gandhi, Rabin and Sadat together.