Discussion:

Discussion for article #231528

It’s funny that white/black male/female relationships are so rare on TV considering their common status in American history as evidenced by genetic studies.
One might be obliged, of course, to ignore the ¨loving¨ qualifier in the headline…

Very good piece. Some very good ideas. Well written. The only slight point of disagreement is Washington is more along the Vanessa Williams classic good looks for a “black” female and not so much the Woodard type IMO; although Woodard is very beautiful herself. See her in state of affairs as the POTUS, real hot, lol. Viola Davis is a real revolution for “black” female/“white” male dynamic as Davis is dark skinned, has more “black” phenotypic features, a larger body size and is presented as beautiful because she is a powerful, smart “black” woman. Her intelligence and power are presented as beautiful so that’s another breakthrough in sexism too. Rhimes is rocking it.

First time I saw Viola Davis was in the Jesse Stone tv movies. Her character was married, but she played–beautifully–Tom Selleck’s “work wife”; that particular friend of the opposite sex that you turn to for empathy on the job.

Given the point about how power factors into the pairing, one would expect that WM-BW would account for the majority of the genetic data. There’s a big difference, some have noticed, between sexual behavior and social norms. The social, cultural perspective as reflected on TV, I would guess is a complex that includes eroticism and a perception of what the audience will accept. With respect to a formalized, public relationship, a black woman might feel empowered by remaining aloof, she might feel that WM-BW implies acceptance of a stereotypical inferior role, or anticipate backlash from black men and women. It’s possible that writers and producers consider that view. Naturally, what is presented as entertainment is a pretty crude reflection of what is involved in real-life decision-making, yet it influences as well as reflects norms.

Did you include FX’s Archer in that list? Not that there is anything remotely approaching a normal relationship in the show, but there is a WM/BF relationship.

OMG, is Shonda doing the Jesse Helms story?

For the 2014-2015 season there’s another black woman/white man pairing, or really a triangle, on The Flash. Iris West is dating one white man (Eddie), but our hero, Barry Allen, is very much in love with her. This is on the CW, which generally goes after a younger audience. Does that mean that, as that younger audience grows up, this combination may be more common?

God I hope not

This goes way back to the jeffersons;

And I’m guessing it’s easier to do a White male Black Woman because white folks tend to feel like that’s showing whites powering over blacks. Where as a Black man and a white woman is like blacks powering over whites. And this attitude goes way back to conquering men having their way with conquered peoples women.

This is nothing new and modern.

So is “White Men Loving Black Women” supposed to be the ultimate validation? Perhaps a revolution involving black people and romance might start with portraying loving, passionate black couples.

The failure to include shows on cable makes the numbers a lot smaller than they should be. The WM/BF couple numbers would explode.

Yes. I had forgotten about that - but that is also when black tv shows were quite popular. It has always been acceptable for a white man to do anything he wants. White men were never or hardly even shunned if they were seen with a black woman,but contrast that with a black man and white woman and you have a totally different reaction

Huh? One only has to look and the President and Michelle as a perfect example of passionate black couples. I am not sure I am getting your drift

In m opinion, the more the races mix, the better off the world would be.

I actually think their are more black-white pairings (both male and female) than there are black couples. This is 100% true if you don’t count majority black shows. On ensemble cast this is almost universally true (more interracial than black couples).

In some way that is progress, but in other ways this is another way for Hollywood to avoid showing positive black families (maybe to avoid making their shows “too” black). It also allows them to avoid tricky race issues, when you have a largely white cast and then just one interracial couple to can “look” diverse without actually addressing diversity issues.

I like applying a test I first heard about for woman in movies (how often two woman characters talk to each other about something other than relationships). I call it how often do two black characters on TV interact with just each other. Other than on the Walking Dead, almost every other show failed this pasty season.

Sorry if this is a little bit of a tangent.

I think what makes Olivia and Fitz so interesting and groundbreaking is that even though he’s the most powerful man in the world, she holds all the power in the relationship. Just saying she would merely consider rekindling their relationship is enough for him to change his political positions. Olivia leaving town sends him into a deep, alcoholic depression. She’s the one who convinced him not to step down from office and to later seek reelection. If it were up to him, Fitz would divorce his wife, marry Olivia, move to Vermont, and make really good looking babies. The only thing he really wants in this world is to be with Olivia.

The same can be said for Jake too. Here’s another ridiculously gorgeous, powerful man who wants nothing more than to be with Olivia. If he had his way, he and Olivia would spend the rest of their lives on their own private island. In fact, that’s exactly what they were doing until Olivia once again chose Fitz. Again, Olivia has all the power and Jake is just begging to stand in the sun next to her.

Another thing Shonda does that other shows don’t do is well is that she never makes these relationships about sex. It’s too easy to fall into the pitfall of hot, sexy, black woman who has all these horny white guys lusting after her. While the sex is extremely hot, it isn’t the focus of either relationship. These men love her first and desire her second. IMO, that’s what makes Scandal’s interracial relationships so groundbreaking. Olivia isn’t just placed on a pedestal by these men, she’s their entire world. I can’t remember having seen that dynamic before.

Vanessa Williams requested that they make her character more like the others, otherwise she wouldn’t have done the show. She didn’t like the way they wrote Alfre Woodard’s character who had no life outside of locking her disabled son in a basement and punishing him for killing someone. I get it. It was weird and not a particularly well-rounded representation of the first black housewife. However, it didn’t have anything to do with skin tone racism (though that very much exists).

I could have sworn the article was about couples on TV shows. There are numerous examples of loving black couples in real life, just as there are numerous examples of white men/ black women relationships in real life. But, again, the article is about what’s portrayed on tv shows.