Discussion:

Discussion for article #230852

WOW I loved reading this

I am a minority woman, a feminist, a liberal. I loath her, would never ever vote her no matter who she is running against, and will never forget the nauseating racism that she displayed in 2008. It is pathetic to witness yet again the coronation process that people like this writer and so much of the Dem establishment and party machine (specially the white part of it) initiate. The proactive “defense” of poor Hillary, victim of bigots. Dear, do you know what kind of things any kind of women are called and told every single day in person and online? Have heard of gamergate just to mention one very obviously idiotic case of women being harassed and attacked for daring having opinions and jobs? Have looked at rape, sexual abuse, and salary inequality stats? Yep, they also say horrible things about this woman. And they will about any other woman who dares to claim access to power. Which doesn’t mean that this woman in particular deserves the entitlement that it is given to her. There’s no such a thing as Hillary being a victim of more than her own missteps. They would also hatefully attack Elizabeth Warren (they do), and Gabby Giffords paid a terrible price for daring. Millions of women do every day. Stop the “Hillary Under Attack” trash. Seems the lib version of Fox News.

I’d say a large factor is that even conservatives can sense a terrible politician, and she really is one, in both ways it could be read. She’s pretty much the Romney of the left, as she’s never really shown what she wants to do with the presidency except have what she thinks she’s owed, coasts on the prestige of a family member and lets that be the bulk of her resume, carpetbagged into an easy office in which to flow with whatever polled well and look Presidential, and ran campaigns in which all policy proposals and positions were largely determined by what the voters of the moment (both pandered to the primary voters in ways that they had to know would kill them in the general) would like if one assumed that voters are idiots, to the point that support for these positions often came down to buzzword salad rather any sensical rationale. In some ways, she’s worse, as Romney, at least, was smart enough to stay away from all but the most high-pitched of dog whistles when he was running.

…and here I thought it was RightWingMen being very afraid of a strong , intelligent, articulate woman well versed in political infighting.

I’m a feminist and a liberal and I think you have a problem.

The anger of so many men against Hillary is not imaginary. Many would rape or kill her if they were offered a moment of an opportunity.

The hate against her is a matter of degree, not kind, when compared with the violence against women that occurs every day.

I envy you the world (state?) you live in, because the foaming-mouth hatred of Hillary by Republican men evidenced in my world (Tennessee) is evidently unknown to you. Her all-encompassing “misstep” to these men is being born with a vagina and having the bad manners NOT to disappear into the wallpaper.

You seem to be carrying your own very heavy baggage about her. I hope you can get it worked out before you do something ridiculous and self-destructive by supporting a Republican/Libertarian candidate whose agenda will include cutting back women’s rights and preventing any future expansion of them.

Gawd. All that to remind us how much right-wing men hate Hillary?

There are legitimate reasons for people to be very wary of a Clinton candidacy - and none of them have anything to do with her gender. But we are already seeing the outlines of the “only women haters dislike Hillary”, which will surely be extended to the left at every opportunity. It’s not going to work.

Thanks for pointing out that she has absolutely no personal achievements of her own and is yet another “entitled woman.”

When does your Hillary Hate Book come out? Probably will sell well even though it’s obviously an echo of the previous ones the article described.

Not every man who dislikes Hillary is a “woman hater.”

But every woman-hater hates Hillary with a red-hot raging passion.

That’s a great description. They would both be comfortable discussing things “in a quiet room”, away from the rabble.

True. Most don’t even dislike her as a person.

It’s more that they loathe the business-as-usual, Wall Street friendly, “trade” agreement promoting, hawkish Neoliberal that is Hillary Clinton.

It’s her politics that suck.

There is no denying that Hillary has her supporters and her haters. There are some things I really don’t like about Hillary. Her support of the Wars and her support of GMO food companies and the fact that she will not deal with our very very serious problems but once again sell us out to Wall Street and the weapon makers. Nothing will change. Wall Bailouts are coming after the next crash if Hillary is elected.
What I really like about Hillary. She is really smart and strong and will drive the crazy Republican asylum inmates even further into insanity.

Why TPM, why? Because it’s Friday (or Saturday through Thursday), which means it’s time to re-rehearse all the arguments that (terrible) people – definitely not TPM – will be making against Hillary Clinton. Most, well some, well almost none of these arguments are untrue, but also they will make her unelectable or at least unable to govern effectively, so … Warren 2016!

By the way, I’m also expecting another “Look How Elizabeth Warren’s Enemies Are The Exact Right Ones To Have Because They Are So Unjust And Incorrect That They Also Prove She Will Be The Kind Of President We Predicted In John Edwards And Barack Obama" article. After all, it is Friday. Also, when it comes to picking presidents, TPM editors have no memory or capacity for self-reflection.

I understand. However, I am also aware of the political system that we have, and I do not see a way to square a circle which would support a Republican candidate for President in 2016.

I do not know for certain that there will be a Clinton candidacy in 2016. It is highly probable, nonetheless.

Whomever the Democratic candidate is, there is a chasm of danger. The danger of a Republican who can sway voters. Bringing with this candidate RightWing Supreme Court justices who (together with the fascists already there) will eventually gut every bit of legislation which would allow someone like me to even be able to buy a house in a white neighborhood. I cannot even picture the further damage they will do to economic, social, educational, environmental, corporate legislation.

Nor is there any guarantee that there will be a Democratic Senate or House. There may well be a RepubliKKKan Presidency, Senate, House, and Supreme Court in 2017. Especially if we do NOT select a Democrat who can WIN the voters we have. And there’s the rub, isn’t it? Isn’t Hillary Clinton’s suitability as a viable candidate predicated, in some way, by the fact that the voters who would vote for Liz Warren ARE PRECISELY THE KINDS OF VOTERS WHO HAVE NOWHERE NEAR THE DISCIPLINE TO ACTUALLY SHOW UP TO VOTE AS THE 60-72 YEAR-OLDS WHO SEEM TO DOMINATE THE PEOPLE POLITICIANS HAVE TO CATER TO?

I am aware that Progressives tend to think and act less in Lock-Step than the Right.

It’s just that we have a lot of deep thinking to do about the big picture.

I disagree and think it’s the exact opposite. I adore Elizabeth Warren, but she barely won in a presidential election year and in liberal Massachusetts. I completely agree with her politics and her policy prescriptions, but her style just isn’t going to inspire the very voters you speak of. I can’t picture black and brown voters getting all jazzed up about Warren.

Clinton, on the other hand, is known and respected within these communities. She’s been Sec. of State, a Senator, and has a long history in politics. She’s probably one of the most qualified presidential candidates in history. There are some things with which I disagree with her but I still think she’s by far our best chance at winning. I also think she’s our best shot at taking back the Senate and maybe even the House. I suspect there will be a whole lot of white women who vote solidly Republican who will pull that lever for her in the privacy of the voting booth.

Whomever the Democrats select, they had better win in 2016

Plucky, as usual you bring your singular wisdom to the discussion of Clinton. Known and respected, history in politics and highly qualified are the assets she brings to the table. To think that enough liberal voters would turn out to first support Warren (or Sanders) and also to vote for a leftie is folly. They couldn’t turn out in an in off year even though it was accurately predicted that the debacle that ensued would ensue. Also, I’ve always thought that R women would comfortably turn out for her because she is seen as going down the middle.

Actually, many of the men who don’t like Hillary came from the Obama campaign and many so-called “progressives” who revealed their sexism loud and clear during the 2008 primaries.

Not to mention the ridiculous displays of blatant racism by the PUMAS…

Now THAT was some ugly shit.

Well then, move to the repubs and see how that works out for ya. Are you serious? The name of the game is to win. Notice how repubs suck it up for a win? What do folks like you gain except to give it to the repubs. I find your thinking very wrong and short sighted.