Discussion: Why Toronto Attacker's Praise Of Elliot Rodger Would Be No Surprise

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Very good journalism, Allegra. Recently, I read an article in the London Review of Books about the incel movement called “The Right to Sex.” I found Allegra’s article more informative. Has anyone tried to analyze the interstices between incel and the Misogynist-in-Chief? Is he a role model for them? Or do they resent him because he is able to grab, etc.? Just curious.

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This isn’t Canada’s first experience with gendered mass murder. The horrific Ecole polyltechnique massacre in Montreal on Dec 6 1989 when 14 women were killed is remembered every year.

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Wow. These people sure need some help targeted in the right ways. Maybe one way to help is to get into their online world and engage them in ways that make sense. They’ll call it trolling, I suppose, but that’s where they spend their time. Certainly an area where good approaches should be developed.

It’s very important to get the news out on these folks, so, indeed, this article is really informative. How can they be helped? As an example, how about some alternative manifestos, not the same old same old, but ones newly developed directly addressing them and their frustrations. I suppose missionaries of various stripes could come in, but care is necessary to be effective.

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Last I read, they idolize him because he does whatever the f he wants, never mind the consequences. This is more enlightenment on their viewpoint on this subject… sorry if it disgusts and/or angers to put it here. I drop by the mammoth often enough to keep generally informed, but there’s only so much disheartening disappointment in some aspects of humanity I can take.

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So, why wouldn’t this be gender-targeted terrorism?

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As the investigation continues we might find it qualifies as a hate crime. I don’t know that we have gender based terrorism as a technical category, but I agree that an act based on the misogynistic incel bullshit ought to be considered a form of gender based terrorism.

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Largely because the media has very specific categories for what they define as terrorism, and this particular weirdness doesn’t really fit into any of those.

Its not POC or people from Middle Eastern descent.

Its not overtly political in its demands.

And incel isn’t a household name.

In most of the cases referenced in this article, there was enough other stuff for a journalist to work with on the killer’s background, so instead of delving into this world, they just provide the standard analysis for the killer instead.

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Violence and animosity in act and rhetoric against women have been so commonplace they are nearly invisible. Until recently.

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I would be somewhat surprised to hear that. Wouldn’t they tend to see Trump as a “Chad”? And Trumpers in reverse would definitely see these people as cucks of the first degree.

So…Incel

I’m supposed to feel badly for guys who grow up with unrealistic expectations as to the women they wish to date? It’s called life. You shoot for the stars and settle for the moon.

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If I understand correctly, “Incel” = “I’m so socially inept that no women want to be around me, and I haven’t been able to admit to myself that Brad is really hot.”

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What’s really depressing here is having to again having to face up to whether the Internet has been worth the cost (a question I am, of course, posing on the Internet). By ones and twos, they were just those guys who couldn’t get laid and buried their bitterness in extreme objectification. But there are hundreds of thousands of them–as there are of any thing in a world of billions–and when they all are able to hook up online rather than just drinking beer with one or two others, they manage to validate each other, build themselves another little toxic confirmation bias bubble and, before you know it, their sexually frustrated rage and hate develops into a forgodsake terrorist ideology.

Indeed, every form of mental illness and maladjustment and that isn’t so crippling that it puts you on the street, away from the Internet, has the potential to turn into an ideology now that all the people who have it can talk to each other rather than listening to the people telling them they have a problem.

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I don’t think it’s a closet thing in most cases (not that I have data to back it up one way or the other). It’s a misogyny thing. I knew a couple guys like this in high school. The convergence of introversion, social awkwardness, and wildly unrealistic expectations about the type of women they should pursue is really at the heart of this stuff. These aren’t guys who can’t get a date–they’re guys who can’t get a date with “the hot chick” and think that it’s “the hot chick’s fault” that she can’t see past his nerdy exterior into his heart of gold. And therefore shes’ just a stuck-up bitch.

Put that in an echo chamber and boom.

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Why thank you!

You’re not really my type though…

:wink:

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[quote=“ncsteve, post:14, topic:71403”]
their sexually frustrated rage and hate develops into a forgodsake terrorist ideology.
[/quote] or a party platform.

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The other thing that occurs to me is that there seems to be a common thread of misogyny and male sexual frustration that runs through a lot of the terrorism story lines regardless of ostensible ideology. Married men who were spousal abusers, unmarried men who didn’t speak to women, people who give off all the signs of “self-denying gay male in a culture where it’s deadly.” Think of that whole strip club before 9/11 bit used as a preview of the paradise that awaited the hijackers.

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The idea of an Incel movement was foreign to me until this incident. Then it became very real with what has happened. My reaction is simply bewilderment. My first real thought in reading Allegra’s article is the internet is a central point once again, in allowing these people to find one another and then mirror and then magnify their dysfunction to one another. Not sure how to contend with that mechanism. Referring to Forbidden Planet, it seems to be the same plot line in a sense.

There is some blame to be given to our society in that matter. Maybe a lot.

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Just a couple? That is like a typical coming of age story for any high school freshman or sophomore. Then junior year hooks in and we all start becoming right and proper people.

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Thanks for the input. I thought they had ‘no’ luck with women, you’re saying it’ that ‘hot’ women won’t date them? So if they can’t get the prettiest woman around they keep themselves ‘incel.’

Wow.

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