Discussion for article #244029
I’m really amazed by these fuckers. Don’t they realize that their fathers were on the wrong side of history and human decency. I really see this as not a lot different than if there was a group in Germany called son of Nazi veterans. But as bat shit crazy as some germans were at least their sons realize it or at least realize that the rest of society thinks they were wrong. God damn white males, confederate, nazi, right wing christian, Harley owners, etc. are some of if not the most group crazy folks around.
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As a white male from Michigan my opinion in this matter probably counts for little. And if I was a black man or woman living in NOLA and had to see these images day in and day out, I probably would want to see them come down. And the Son’s of Confederate Veterans do themselves no favors when they post stupid shit (Grey lives matter? Really?). With that said, it is an historical fact that slavery was once legal in this country and that we fought a civil war to bring it to an end. Removing these monuments actually obscures those facts. Why not update the monuments to provide more information about the particular subject or event so that it becomes less about honoring those who were traitors to our country and more about educating current and future generations about our past?
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No, You don’t.
…the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons. - Emancipation Proclamation, 1863
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Especially on public property.
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White male here AND I totally agree with your disdain for our racist and fascist white male KKK Trump-Rubio-Cruz Republican members of our society.
The Tea Party and the NRA are white male racist groups! Grandsons of Stalin is what I call 'em.
There are several reasons I no longer belong to the NRA - obviously flooding our streets with military class weapons does not make us safe - but one main reason is the creeping racism that has taken over the NRA.
NRA stickers are a badge of racism!
Watch the Texas school board and their efforts to re-write the history of slavery and civil war…to somehow make the Confederacy look like a honorable and Patriotic thing when it was completely dishonorable and treasonous.
It’s no secret that the KKK and racism is making a comeback in the US - Trump is certainly helping their pitiful cause. Not just in the south…in Maine where they have a Tea Party Governor and Wisconsin where they also have Tea Party Governor have seen a resurgence in the KKK.
The whole birther thing with President Obama is about race…Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio have a lot more to explain about their qualifying for the candidacy than Obama. Why isn’t Trump calling them out?
And then we have racists claiming the Black Lives Matter movement is an attach on free speech. Only racists could come up with that twisted logic.
The next election is key for many reasons…the SCOTUC already has too many racists on the bench (Roberts, Scalia, Alito).
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Why not update the monuments to provide more information about the particular subject or event so that it becomes less about honoring those who were traitors to our country and more about educating current and future generations about our past?
Why not? Because the monuments in question are public honors to traitors and terrorists. From the article:
… statues honoring statues honoring Gens. Robert E. Lee and P.G.T. Beauregard, CSA President Jefferson Davis as well as an obelisk memorializing the Battle of Liberty Place, a revolt by a white supremacist army against the biracial reconstruction government after the Civil War.
Statutes honoring traitors like Robert E. Lee are obscuring the truth about the Civil War and slavery (which groups like the SCV DENY was the causus belli) and the legal reformation of the Constitution targeting zombie lies about states’ rights and nullification.
Similarly, before suggesting there’s educational value in these particular monuments to racist diehard losers, pertinent questions need to be asked. What’s educational about the obelisk commemorating defeated traitors rioting in the streets of New Orleans? How many non-Revolutionary riots have been honored with there own monuments> How many statutes (Jefferson Davis, but not King George III or Adolph Hitler?) are on display of the nation’s defeated foes? Or to the enemies who started hostilities like Beauregard did at Ft. Sumter?
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i have spent a lot of time in the great city of New Orleans and one of its many treasures is the city’s tapestry of history … some good, some bad, some ugly. My only worry is that once certain pressure groups begin demanding the removing of historic landmarks & monuments it might be very difficult to know when to stop. For instance, Jackson Square … should that be re-named because Andrew Jackson owned slaves on his Tennesee plantation? Removing history just allows us all to forget history. The monunments in question are not celebratory of slavery or revolution. They are reminders of events and blood spilled. There is a difference.
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so should the history of these events be completely deleted from the places where they occurred? are you saying there is no educational value in the history of the US Civil War? What kind of memoriam is acceptable to you? Statue = Bad, Obelisk = Bad, Plaque = ?, ??
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don’t try to give a reasoned option here. some of these folks just want to tear down anything that causes them to “trigger” thoughts about difficult subjects like US history.
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Well said.
We really should teach American History in far more depth than we do in this country. And that goes for both sides of this argument. I see as many ignorant comments and lack of understanding of the American Civil War and the generation who lived through it from the “left” as I do the angry, racists, new-confederates. 21st century arm chair warriors who do not take the time to study the whole of American History and the American Civil War in particular can sound just as ignorant as the idiots in the neo-confederate movement.
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who served honorably
I was under the impression that traitors were traitors.
Exactly as defined in the Constitution; Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
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As a white male from New Orleans, I can understand how these monuments are offensive to the majority of New Orleaneans. A case might be made for P.G.T. Beauregard, he at least has roots in Louisiana. But as far as we know, General Lee never set foot in this state. Jefferson Davis owned a plantation in neighboring Mississippi (over 100 slaves) and the obelisk memorializing the Battle of Liberty Place is a tribute to white supremacy. There is not a who;e lot of salvaging context you can place on any of the latter three. We have a Confederacy Museum here in New Orleans that would be an appropriate location for these monuments, not the public square, maintained by citizens and taxpayers who despise the very thought of the institution they represent. In our democracy, we elect individuals to carry out the will of the people who elect them. Mayor Landreau and the city council are doing just that. If the Sons of the Confederacy and their allies want to work to elect a individuals who will replace the monuments, then go for it. In the meantime, democracy rules.
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Excellent post, @go2goal. Southern white man here – with direct-line family members who fought for the Confederacy. I’m a proud Southern boy, but proud of the actual heritage, Pecan Pie, Loretta Lynn, bluegrass, genteel nature, manners, the beautiful countryside, my live-and-let-live nature, and on and on. I’m not at all proud of the Civil War and why we fought it. As an American, I’m very sorry and apologetic that we even considered to enslave other human beings – and then followed through on doing so. I’m a proud supporter of President Barrack Obama, and having voted for him two times. I’m very proud that Virginia voted for President Obama! I would like to see all these old monuments either taken down and put in proper museums with plaques detailing their history or, if that can’t/won’t be done, erecting very large plaques attached to or put side-by-side to these statues, etc., detailing their histories, what they stood for and pointing that that is our history.
Please note that although I’m Southern born and raised, I’m also a Californian – and miss the Bay Area very much. Thank you.
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…the KKK and racism is making a comeback…
I think less of it making a comeback as those that have always felt this way are becoming more vocal and public about their feelings. I could be wrong, but I think of this as just the last breath of a dying breed.
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If they were to be destroyed, I could agree with you. Put them in a museum where they belong so to not forget the history.
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Yes, it’s important to “preserve the legacy” of running slave labor camps on their fathers’ and grandfathers’ cotton farms.
Something to be proud of, evidently.
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Slippery slope concern trolling is not an argument “well said”.
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so we mark the physical spot with a plaque? or is that to much of a trigger? maybe all civil war battle fields or historic places should be turned into parking lots too? after all there can just be a museum where Americans can learn about the darker sides of history … although people would need to sign waivers and watch a warning video that there will be desriptions and photos of war and killing and even (trigger warning) news that the Confederates even won a few battles.
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