Discussion for article #235911
Iām a washington resident and would love for our state to adopt an income tax. Every year, reactionaries make political hay off the inevitable transportation, property, and sales tax increases that affect the poor and middle class. We just keep slapping bandaid after bandaid on budget shortfalls, while the amazon and tech millionaires turn seattle into a san fransisco-style money pit.
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I used to live in SF ā and, yes, it has turned into a money pit. In the last twenty-five, thirty years, SF has gone from a remarkably diverse, bohemian, very culturally-rich city to nothing more than a playground for the wealthy. I know a few people still there, but theyāve been property owners for decades. Even many of the physicians who work for UC or other hospitals inside SF proper cannot afford to purchase a home there.
I love The City and will treasure memories of my years there, but the whole place is nearly all Pacific Heights-wannabes. The divide between the haves and have-nots is very stark. Iāve never been to Seattle, but I sure feel what you are saying.
That said, I have no idea if a state tax would help the situation. These great places get these wonderful reputations and create very welcoming environs but then everyone who has the money who wants to live there can drive the car and leave the rest of us on the side of the roads.
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But, in the state with the most regressive tax system (Washington State), the lowest income bracket pays 16.8% of their income to state taxes while only 2.4% of the top one percentās income goes to state taxes.
Thatās because Washington has no income tax, and relies heavily on its sales tax as a result, which of course is the most regressive form of tax there is. That this is not explained in the article is a real disservice to readers.
I would add that there are a significant number of people who actually work and shop here in Oregon, but live just over the river in Vancouver WA, because they are tax cheats. Oregon has no sales tax and Portland is the largest job market in the area. So they work here, but since they are legally residents in Washington, donāt pay income tax, avoid the higher property tax (which Oregon has to help offset having no sales tax) but do most of their shopping (particularly on big ticket items) here in order to avoid paying Washington sales taxes.
On a minor subjective anecdotal level, they also tend to drive like total assholes as well.
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Ditto. All the compassionate Christians in the 'burbs and rural areas of Snohomish, King and Pierce Counties along with all the rednecks east of the Cascades have made it impossible to replace the sales tax with a state income tax. Jeff Bezos was particularly vocal in his opposition to this when the wealth tax was proposed two year ago. It will never happen as long a Boeing think itās a non-profit organization and if guys like Gate and Allen sit on their hands. Iām convinced that the only way to get that changed here is a public shaming campaign by the very people who would pay the most.
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I agree. I was a 20 year resident of WA, with my parents currently living in OR. I live in Germany, so I look at coming to OR as a great way to buy big ticket items with no tax (ex. new Nikon D7200) - which I would pay 19% VAT here in Germany.
However, here, I see the benefits of a higher tax burden. I am not low income so donāt know how deductions work out for them, but I do know I pay at least 40+% in income tax, + other tax, + 19% VAT. But I do see the benefits of health care, infrastructure, civilityā¦
Going back to WA/OR in April for business/family made me want to get back home to Germany againā¦ itās an equality thingā¦
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I think the article is missing an general discussion of the way that states rely on sales and property and taxes and on fees in addition to income tax. That would help frame the regressive bit (and also show how federal taxes arenāt nearly ass progressive as you would think from just looking at income-tax brackets).
Also useful might be a look at the history of the states in question. Delaware, for example, has spent a long time being a good place to have a pro forma corporate headquarters (with associated fees to the state). Hawaii has something of a history of oligarchy. And Washington ā idunno, is it the extractive industries and the big contractors?
But the basic thesis that democrats need to focus on non-national levels and policies that are actually good for ordinary people ā probably a good idea.
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I guess Iād dispute the liberal characterization. WA and HI are more liberal socially and conservative economically. Illinois is dominated by the historic political machine of Chicago, which doesnāt predict much anywhere else.
Man, I am glad for some light on this issue. Having lived in both places it sure seems like Seattle (where I live currently) is well on its way to becoming another San Francisco: wealthy, largely liberal, professional class serviced by a subsistence class of people eking out livings on the margins. For example: its amazing to watch the impact Amazonās expansion has had on the downtown here, theyāve literally torn down and rebuilt almost the entire South Lake Union neighborhood. The big companies bring a lot of money and do a lot of good for the economy, but it is not a tide that lifts all boats. In fact, its swamping a lot boats as the cost of living skyrockets in the city.
An income tax could help but the wealthy do a great job of convincing the middle class to side with the 1% rather than vote their own interests.
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Public shaming only works temporarily. And many of the ridiculously wealthy donāt feel shame. You have to have a certain amount of sociopathy to climb the corporate ladder to the highest levels.
The best way to change things is to stop voting for Democrats and Republicans, and to run for state office as an independent, or form a reform party.
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I agree with you on most every point, except I donāt think WA state residents even have the opportunity to vote their interest and/or conscience.
Have we ever had an income tax proposal that wasnāt in addition to the sales tax?
Look at McIntireās current tax plan, adding an income tax, removing the property tax, slashing business taxes, and reducing the sales tax by a percent.
This increase my tax burden by a few thousand. And you know what? I have been lucky (and good) in my career. Iād gladly vote for an income tax if more than a tiny portion would go to the poor. But itās not. Itās a boondoggle for land barons and businesses. Iām not going to pay out 20% more to the state so that real estate can explode even more, landlords and real estate moguls can make out like thieves.
The last thing WA state needs is help with small businesses and real estate. It already leads the nation in the former and is thriving with the latter.
This is our State Treasurer (D).
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Agreed. Democratic candidates always have to run towards the middle for statewide offices because socially-liberal Republicans put up a feasible challenge.
WA state is a heady brew of the libertarian nouveau riche, artists, nerds, rednecks (often liberal rednecks) and hipsters. You also have those who remember and still live the days of the steel mills and bustling ports, when manufacturing was king.
Maybe Iām being overly flowery, but thereās still a tiny bit of frontier spirit in Washington state. You can still disappear into the woods here for a time. Iāve met a surprising number who have. Itās an isolationistās state, reflected in its chilly public attitudes, entrepeneurial spirit, and bevy of serial killers.
I am a lifelong resident. It is a libertarian state, deeply mistrustful of authority, progressive or conservative.
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I grew up in Washington State and love it very much. Like the song says, āThe bluest skies youāll ever see are in Seattle.ā At 38, I took a job in the Washington, DC Metropolitan area. I lived in Maryland; and, my tax burden there was so high and extraordinarily difficult to compute. I do not believe that now that I am back in Washington that my burden is as difficult or as high as in Maryland. In Maryland, I not only paid Federal taxes, but state taxes, county taxes, and city taxes. Making ends meet in Maryland were never so difficult in all my life. I am much relieved now to be retired in the state of Washington; and, I know that I pay less in taxes now in Washington than in Maryland. I paid 30+ percent of my income while living and working in Maryland as a GS-7. I am so very happy to be back in the beautiful Pacific Northwest. FWIW, I only go to Oregon to visit family. I understand the theories stated above; but, I have never seen those theories work as described in my real life in the state of Washington.
Gates actually supported the income tax initiative very vocally.
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This is a direct result of the rather brilliant tactic the Republicans used to focus on state offices back in '00s. They were able to dismantle the mildly progressive state tax systems and implement favorable rates for their vaunted Jobz Creatorzā¢. Liberals need to work to roll rates back up for the wealthy and down for the lower end of the spectrum.
The voters in these states chose to elect Democrats to serve as governor, gave the Democrats the majority in both houses of their state legislatures (with the exception of Washington, which split control of the legislature)
Uh, noā¦
Illinois just elected a Republican Governor. Thankfully, the legislature still has a Dem supermajority to stop him from doing too much damage.
Iām glad Iām not the only one who remembers that television show. (Actually, what I remember about it the most is that theme song. And Joan Blondell.)
Lestatdelc,
Incorrect. Youāre a smart person, did you just make that proclamation up about ātax cheatsā or did you make an assumption? Youāre totally wrong about living in WA and working in OR. Any wages earned in OR are taxed by the state of Oregon-thus if you live in WA and work in OR, youāll pay OR income tax on those wages. And if you buy a big ticket item like a car in OR, you have to pay taxes on it in WA when you register it. I thought everyone who lived in PDX metro knew you canāt just move across the river and live income tax free while working in Portlandā¦
Really?
You have to register your $3,000 leather sofas in Washington?
If you work from home or perform any amount of work in Washington, then you can prorate the Oregon wage amount Even if the employer reported the full amount of wages for Oregon on the W-2 (check out 316.085). This can āsaveā a fair amount of Oregon taxes that more than a few management-level employees would otherwise have to pay for claiming a lot of telecommuting or are on call for significant amounts of time.
I know more than a few tech-libertarian type who intuitionally do this and claim most of their work is āpro-ratedā because they ātelecommuteā while working at Intelās two Hillsboro campuses.
So it DOES happen.
Your comment was disingenuous to state that there are a significant amount of people who live in WA, working in OR, and paying no income taxes. All the more so since you actually live here and didnāt just make an assumption which would actually make more sense. Knowing a handful of folks whoāve partially managed it at Intel isnāt exactly a rock solid case. If anything there are a limited number (it would probably be a stretch to say 5% of folks who live in WA and work in OR) who have managed to entirely reap the benefits of both sides, a slightly larger portion who probably see some minor tax benefit to telecommuting occasionally, and a huge number that have basically all of their earnings subject to Oregon income tax.
I said if you buy a big ticket item like a car. I didnāt say, if you buy big ticket items like a couch or TV. I specified that the biggest ticket item one can buy other than property or education, still gets subjected to WA taxesā¦ a 35k new car dwarfs however many couches and TVs the average person would buy in their lifetime, and if youāre living in the 'Couveā¦youāve most definitely got a carā¦