Discussion: When Parents Get A Nuclear Option On School Involvement

Discussion for article #223172

It’s a little sad when that’s what it takes to make administrators pay attention.

Sad, but not surprising. When people are virtually impossible to fire, they act like it.

Once again, all responsibility for a child’s academic success is placed on the school - whether administrators or teachers. Once again, those who don’t actually teach complain when children don’t succeed.

Here’s a few questions you might want to ask: 1. How many children are English Language Learners? 2. How many children have parents who were not successful in school? 3. How many children have parents who are not helping their child succeed in school. 4. How many children have parents who don’t know how to help their child succeed in school? 5. How many children have parents who think erroneously, as so many others do, that their child’s academic success is solely the responsibility of the schools? 6. How many children have inadequate nutrition, health care, and/or dental care? 7. How many children are being abused, terrorized, or are afraid in their homes or communities? 8. How many children have already fallen into the cycle of failure because of social promotion?

Are you aware that children who don’t master the curriculum in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., grades are moved along to the next grade and NOT given remedial instruction? Are you aware that children in some California school districts receive grammar education only in the 3rd grade, and never again? Are you aware that science and social studies education in elementary and middle schools is practically non-existent because of the pressures of standardized testing, especially the CAHSEE being concentrated on English Literature and Math?

Teachers can only do so much. Without parents letting their children know that they are expected to work hard to succeed, the child learns early that they can sit back and relax and still move along to the next grade. Until they get to high school, of course, and then they don’t believe it when we tell them they must get passing grades in order to graduate.

There’s a lot wrong with public education, mainly caused by all the attempts to “reform” it, compounded by the idea of standardized testing to ‘hold teachers accountable’. Who is holding the student accountable?

Laying the blame on anything but the child and the parents for the child’s failure to succeed is counter-productive and will only erode the schools even more.

Oh, and BTW, stop with the “impossible to fire” garbage. Teachers must also meet standards, and can be removed from their jobs just as easily as anyone else. Stop listening to those who want to privatize education.

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I have two kids, one already graduated from Public Schools in Southern California, and one in the fifth grade.

My youngest made second high honors for all three quarters, and looks likely to finish the 4th quarter with all A’s and B’s as well. And yes, there are many nights where me and his mother are up until 9 or 10 o’clock at night helping with his homework. However, here is a key difference you fail to mention.in your screed.

My son doesn’t get paid or get a pension for going to school. Me and my wife don’t get paid for all the hours we put in. THE TEACHER GETS PAID! BECAUSE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THEIR JOB!

Second, your stuff about passing kids along is nonsense. After the first grade, they can, and do retain kids who don’t master the curriculum. The school district my kids go to threatened to retain my oldest son when he was in second grade if he did not pass the standardized State tests.

Your last comment, is just too much to stomach.

If Teachers are as easy to remove from their jobs as anybody else, then why did the LAUSD pay Mark Brendt $40,000 to resign?

This is the same teacher who feed his semen to blind folded students as part of the “tasting game”.

Here is your answer. Because it is easier to convict a child predator in a court of law, than to fire them for lewd acts in the LAUSD.

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Why pay a criminal to resign rather than go through the due process required to fire them? Perhaps because convening the right people, including the lawyer for the school, would have cost more than $40K, and they wanted to get the process over with as quickly as possible?

Yes, I agree. The point being, it is more difficult to remove public employees from their jobs than it is “anyone else”. Some people may think that is a good thing, and maybe it is.

But is clearly more difficult to remove low performers or even those accused of criminal wrong doing than the private sector.

Also, I went to both public and privates schools. Their isn’t anything wrong with private schools. I found the Catholic school I attended to be superior in many respects.

Thank you! You are the one making the most sense on this thread. Too many on the left have guzzled the Kool-Aid and are on board with privatization, or at least steps in that direction. Even in my world, higher education, there are attacks. When Schwarzenhitler was governor he tried to eliminate tenure. Now, for-profit tech schools seem to be winning. I have some experience with these daytime cable advertisers, and they sell an inferior education at an obscene profit.

I’d rather have a few issues with tenured faculty than a whole lot of second-rate hacks, providing training without education.

This is patently false in most places. In the case of John Freshwater, a teacher in Ohio who had been teaching creationism for years and burned a cross onto a student’s arm with a Tesla coil, it took over two years of administrative hearings before he was finally fired, and nearly three more years before his appeals to the state Supreme Court were finally denied.

Five years and nearly a million dollars in legal fees to fire one teacher for blatant incompetence and disregard for school curriculum, and that’s after ignoring him for years before.

There’s always exceptions that are outside the norm. You know a teacher…he knows a teacher…etc. My father was a supervisor at a (private) printing firm. He frequently complained to me about how hard it was to fire people. He’d often have to go to court to defend the decision to fire people. Were those the norm? Probably not any more than those exceptions you’ve mentioned are the norm. It depends on the rules in place at the particular locale, county, or state.

I’ve worked in both private and public positions, and I know how easy it is to fire from both. I’ve seen teachers escorted off campus by school police with no warning. That’s the other end of the spectrum.

I stand by my statement.

Ok, let me start by saying I went to public schools, and feel I got a great education. That being said, some of your questions are way off point. It is my opinion that “they don’t make em like they used to”, that is, today’s teachers don’t have the same dedication they did in my day. I make NO claims at all to even begin to understand why, but things have definitely changed.

  1. How many children are English Language Learners?
    Why does this matter? I’m now a Software Engineer, and I work with a lot of people that speak english as a second language, and yet they still manage to be frickin brilliant.

  2. How many children have parents who were not successful in school?
    Again, why does this matter? I was a straight A student, and credit education for getting me out of the ghetto. I stressed this to my sons from 1st grade thru their senior year in high school and beyond. Yet they barely managed to pass with 'C’s in high school, including the one with an IQ over 150.

  3. How many children have parents who are not helping their child succeed in school.
    My mother sat down with me ONCE, in my entire life, to help me with my homework. When she realized I knew more about the subject matter then she did, she never even tried again. She kept me clothed, fed, and safe. That was all I needed.

  4. How many children have parents who don’t know how to help their child succeed in school?
    See question 3

  5. How many children have parents who think erroneously, as so many others do, that their child’s academic success is solely the responsibility of the schools?
    Why is it “erroneous” to think that?

  6. How many children have inadequate nutrition, health care, and/or dental care?
    This one actually rings a little true for me, a hungry child can’t focus the way they should. But this alone doesn’t describe the drastic slide in quality of education.

  7. How many children are being abused, terrorized, or are afraid in their homes or communities?
    Again, this argument tugs at my heart strings, but I question how much of an impact this should have overall. On a case by case basis, yes, as a general statement, no.

  8. How many children have already fallen into the cycle of failure because of social promotion?
    If by social promotion you mean promoting a kid to the next grade simply to move them on despite not having met the requirements to do so, this is again part of the “new” culture of teaching. I didn’t see this happening when I was in school.

Well we know what Republican educational values get us, don’t we?

Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton are probably the most obvious examples we see around today.

-dlj.