…[quote=“Apotropoxy, post:5, topic:9358”]
Feticide’s biblical justification:The Test for an Unfaithful Wife/ Numbers 5:11-21
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…until it’s their daughter, wife, mistress who yielded to temptation and got knocked up.
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And the reporting of gunshot wounds? Doesn’t that frequently end up in people going to jail? If someone chooses to die from their gunshot wound rather than seek medical care, that is their prerogative, but I am not going to take a vital piece of the system that protects victims from rape, to child abuse away, just because some thug would rather die than go to prison for his illegal activities.
You won’t find me disagreeing with you about the point of a lot of anti-choice legislation is to push it to too late of a date to get a legal abortion. It is disgusting, and that needs to be fought on its merits. We have won many court cases along those very lines. But that does not mean that late term abortions should be legal, just because the opponents of women’s health use that as a means to stop other abortions.
But if the state feels they can prove that the health of the mother was not an issue, than their prosecution was entirely constitutional. That would actually be very easy to prove, because the only way to say that a pregnancy was harmful to the health of the mother is if a doctor said that. No diagnosis, no health and safety of the mother argument. Done and done. Easy.
Similar to calling 911 if a friend or family member is having a mental health crisis. Far too many times the cops who show up shoot the victim. Got so bad in Portland that the Feds stepped in and for the next 5 years the cops have to report monthly on how they treat the mentally ill.
Hospitals reporting to the cops on late term miscarriage seems overreach - how about compassion for a woman so desperate or depressed she tried something so drastic?
As an adamant pro choice woman from the same town, I disagree with both charges. She was 7 1/2 months along. She is from a very well to do family and had money of her own as a 30 something woman. She could have taken advantage of a safe lawful procedure offered in this very town. Instead at the last moment she chose to take drugs she imported to abort herself. The coroner’s report stated the baby took a breath. She dumped the baby in a dumpster behind her family’s business. Then went to the hospital. Why not take the child with her? And after telling the doctors she was 7 months along, why wouldn’t they be concerned enough to make sure the child was indeed dead? Most 7 month gestational infants live with hospital care. Not so much with dumpster care.
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In the United States abortion is legal, yet the Supremes have limited this right. But what the anti-choice, pro-fetus movement has done is to criminalize the idea of the ability to have an abortion and also they’re seeking to again criminalize the use of contraception and the ability to obtain contraception.
What the anti-choice group is seeking to do is to turn back the clock of progress to a time when women were considered chattel and women had second class status with no protection of law. Sadly the forces of repression won’t give up until they lose the majority of voters in this nation. Until then the only thing that progressive people can do to ensure their rights is to vote and vote in every election. No election should go by without a plurality of progressive voters, ensuring their rights are secure and that the Constitution is followed.
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Well another slam job by a misinformed Right Wing Nut. How awful it must be to live in a world where black and white are the only colours. You say that Obama’s America is causing this holocaust? You’re wrong on all counts, abortion has been recognized as a right since Richard Nixon was president.
As for the right wing nuts being adults, please become more informed on the Constitution. You’re woefully misinformed as to the scope of the Constitution and the ability of women to control their own lives, sexually, monetarily, and as far as having a family. When women control their own lives, it is proven that the lives of everyone around them are bettered because of their ability to chose.
Yet the Right to which some belong, would stifle the progress women have made since the early 1960’s. The Right wing would completely regress this nation into a morass of laws that enslave women, immigrants, poor, disabled, minorities and elderly. Putting us back into the late 1800’s. We are not going backwards, we, people who think for ourselves are going to force change, the kind of change that brings freedom for all and not the few like those on the right are portraying as freedom.
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Feticide’s biblical justification is irrelevant. Our laws are not based on the bible. Nor should they be.
So according to the Bible if the husband is jealous and doesn’t trust his wife, it’s okay for the priest to attempt to induce an abortion of the child to be that the man doesn’t want using an incantation as the means?
There is a feminist saying: If men had pregnancies, abortion would be a sacrament.
Depends whose ox is gored.
Hospitals are ethically /morally bound to treat the patient first. That is their responsibility. Police are not allowed to interview, interrogate or even obtain blood samples until cleared by nursing. In an Emergency Room, that can take some time. In the Patel case, she repeatedly denied the birth. It was only after constant questions by staff (including times after she had medications) that she told them and did not say she was 7 1/2 months. In the Shuai case, both mother and baby (in utero) were progressing well and about to be released. A social worker took it upon themselves to contact the police- though no crime had been committed.
When hospital staff contact police before treatment, or because they dont like what it happening , that is a huge issue.
So what you are saying, is that the police did not question her until after cleared by nursing, and it was nurses asking medically relevant information (I imagine have you recently been pregnant, when the problem is uterine bleeding, and all hormone tests and physical evidence points to yes is medically relevant) that led to the investigation. If she lied to them, of course they asked her repeatedly to get the truth, it was important for treating her. They did not contact the police before treatment. And apparently, the prosecution thinks a crime was committed (it clearly was; late-term abortions are illegal in Indiana) and so all of the stipulations you put forward were followed, and then the hospital followed up its other moral obligation, which is to report it when they suspect a crime had been committed. Which it had been. I don’t see how either of these cases violate any of the stipulations you put forward. It really looks like everything is on the up and up.