Discussion: WH Finalizing Executive Order To Expand Health Plans Offered By Associations

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Can’t be too long before he starts appearing in ads for Oscar Health, Josh Kushner’s health insurance company.


Why this is Yet Another Terrible Thing from Dumblefuck:


It looks like states can and will sue, but so many people will suffer regardless. Ugh.


Others warned that over time the White House order could undermine state insurance markets created under Obama’s law, by siphoning off healthy people to plans with lower premiums and skinnier benefits.

That is the intention.


The ACA already allows this, old news. There are already HMO’s that sell in several states to groups of 2 or more. As long as there is a location to collect the premiums for the members, all is good to go. The problems are gonna be networks for how the billing for services will be done as each area has a different CPT code that is agreed upon by the providers, networks and insurance companies. The best way to do this association thingy would be Medicare for all, now that is an idea that would really work.


Others warned that over time the White House order could undermine state insurance markets created under Obama’s law, by siphoning off healthy people to plans with lower premiums and skinnier benefits.

In the short term, there is a price disruption.

The longer term goal is to manufacture evidence for the message: Obamacare is a failure, with prices skyrocketing, but we know how to make health insurance more affordable.


The associations won’t have to offer ACA-compliant plans. That’s a huge change.

Edited to add link to good Vox explanation of what the EO is likely to contain:

Association health plans, explained
An association health plan, as Vox’s Sarah Kliff has previously explained, is a way for a group of small businesses pool together to buy insurance, giving them more purchasing power and access to cheaper premiums. A group of bakeries, for example, might form a bakers association and purchase health coverage together. The most famous examples have been farm bureaus, which allowed independent farming businesses to band together and get insurance.

Before Obamacare, national associations could pick and choose which states’ insurance rules they wanted to follow and use those rules to guide the plans they offered nationwide. The bakers association could choose to follow the rules for, say, the Alabama insurance market, which mandates coverage of relatively few benefits, for all its bakeries in New York, a state with many mandates.

The result was often health insurance that skirted state rules and was a better deal for businesses with young and healthy employees, who are likely to prefer skimpier health plans. The former insurance regulator described the situation prior to the ACA to Kliff as being “a race to the bottom, with some associations offering lower-cost plans that covered virtually nothing.”

Obamacare changed these rules. Association health plans were treated as small businesses and were therefore required to cover all of the law’s mandated benefits.


Where are the cries of “unconstitutional overreach” and what not that attended, say, Obama’s DACA policy?


Yeah, they pretty much want to destroy everything good and decent that’s been accomplished over the past 8 years - health care, women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, immigration, climate change, the environment, workplace safety, the Supreme Court, US standing and respect in the world, you name it. Oh, and gotta be sure to erase as much of Obama from history as possible. And they can do it all by Executive Order, changing agency regulations and processes, non-enforcement. But, Hillary’s emails and she wasn’t “pure” like Bernie and there’s no difference between her and Trump. It will take many years to undo what’s being done while they distract with NFL feuds, Twitter rants, etc. And then a conservative SCOTUS might prevent Democratic president and Congress from doing what needs to be done. Columbus Day - discover the new America.


Trumpcare, like Trump University and Trump steaks, is the same sham from the con man. His insistence that selling insurance across state lines would somehow make healthcare more affordable has been skewered by every single person that knows anything about insurance, and yet here we go.

Fuck insurance, we need healthcare.


So because it’s probably too late for this to have any effect on 2018 premiums, those premiums are still going to go way up for those in the individual market. According the article, this will hit “solid middle class” small business owners and early retirees especially hard. I’m sure that will include millions of Trump voters. Of course few of those will attribute the damage to Trump, most will blame “the failure of Obamacare,” and to some extent will blame Republicans in Congress for not repealing Obamacare.

Then if they are able to get into a cheap, bare bones “association” plan next year, thanks to this EO, they will will be ever so thankful to their hero for “lowering their premiums.”

Except, of course, for those that actually get sick or injured, in which case at least a few of them may realize – perhaps while sitting in bankruptcy court – that their lower premiums were only made possible by very skimpy coverage.

As they ponder the prospects of continuing to obtain insurance despite their new medical condition, they may finally understand why a decent basic benefits package, and not excluding (or pricing out) those with pre-existing conditions, are actually important for real people, in the real world.

Ironically, if their financial situation gets bad enough – if they lose everything and have little to no income – the dreaded “socialized health care,” in the form of Medicaid, will bail them out. I wonder if any of them will suddenly realize why it’s not a good idea to require people to be utterly impoverished by their medical conditions before government help finally kicks in. And you can bet that the early retirees will be counting the months, weeks, and days until they can qualify for Medicare, another “socialist” program.

Of course for many of them, they’ll have no such realizations, despite the evidence smacking them full in the face. Instead will find some way to blame Obama for their predicament. But for the few who do actually connect the dots, and realize they did this to themselves, they’re in for a rude awakening.


Block Grants to the States aren’t actually popular. Just some Republicans find them popular. But “Popular” implies that there are lots and lots of people who want block grants to the States.

I’d like a show hands for who really thinks that’s popular.

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Given the lower cost of POEs for Administration, it seems to me an exercise to leave more people at risk.

So basically this is a way to ignore the essential benefits rule with a bonus of having the only office for complaints several thousand miles away?

Well, our move, if we ever get the power again, needs to be mandatory Medicare for all, not a Medicare for all that makes the free market compete with it. In other words, cut the throat of free market health care for profit so that there is nothing to go back to if the Republicans evil their way back in to power.