Discussion: Wendy Davis:

[darrius]

@Sooner

Guess I’m missing your intent here, these seem to be nonsensical. Try again without the epithet.

The person I was responding to used the term “private fucking business.” So I respond it kind. Say something to her using epithets. And dial back the insults while you are at it.

It’s not difficult to see what I mean. You just want to play dumb because you know I’m right. If it’s soley her choice then she should be solely responsible for the consequences of the decision. But we don’t hold her solely responsible, and rightfully not because it’s wasn’t solely her decision.

@Sooner

Really? Can you support this with any reliable statistics?

Can you prove me wrong with reliable statistics?

I can say “been there done, done that.”

@Sooner

Perhaps in a perfect world or in the dreams of staunch pro-lifers. This is not anywhere near being black and white. That’s why we must have choices for the entire shades of grey.

Right, and men who didn’t mean to get women pregnant should be able to escape child support by arguing, “I didn’t really mean to get her pregnant, this isn’t anywhere near being black and white”

Men and women get pregnant together. Any such law or strategy that doesn’t acknowledge them both, consider them both, take the rights and duties or both into account, isn’t fair and is going to have significant opposition.

[srfromgr]

Darrius doesn’t realize or selectively chooses not to address a woman’s choice in having an abortion due to rape or incest, or the life of the mother you’ll notice. Apparently, he/she feels that a girl/woman should be forced to carry to term a child that perhaps no one would be present to support, except a mother forced to conceive against her will. Think of it…a girl having just had her first menses, gets pregnant by an abusive and sexually perpetrating father. Yeah, imagine that. That shit happens. And so do a lot of ill-timed and ill-conceived pregnancies with less dramatic backstories, but personally life-changing all the same. It seems according to Darrius…a child should be forced to conceive unless a doctor says what-what exactly? That’s just fucking ridiculous, and beyond insensitive.

[darrius]

@SRfromGR

A woman’s right to have an abortion doesn’t affect you and your family life or your personal choices if you choose to have a child.

Actually it does affect people besides her, it affects the baby and it affects the father.

True, it doesn’t materially affect people at a distance, but the murder doesn’t materially affect people at a distance either.

[srfromgr]

Tell me how a zygote is a baby…but first, make sure you look up zygote in the dictionary. Then scientifically tell me what a zygote feels, and then what a fetus feels at 20 weeks.

Please educate yourself. We’re done here.
When men get physically pregnant in this world, not some fantasy world you imagine, I’ll listen to your bullshit.
Here’s a good article to point you in the right direction:

Fetuses Feel Pain at 20 Weeks, and 4 Other Anti-Abortion Myths

[paulw]

If we had a system where a woman’s doctor saying termination was medically necessary was all it took to have timely access to an abortion, we would in many ways be way ahead of where we are now in many states. (Of course, behind the caveat that it can’t be a doctor who is being seen just for the purpose of terminating a pregnancy I can see a loophole that states with mostly-right-wing doctors or state with a lot of poor women who don’t have a regular personal physician would hide behind.)

But we have a recent case, for example, where a woman was jailed for trying to kill herself because she preferred being dead to carrying her pregnancy to term. I would call a termination medically necessary in such a case, but there are plenty of people who wouldn’t.

Ultimately, any system that goes from “you can disapprove” to “you can forbid” is going end up with dead women, motherless children and worse.

[darrius]

@SRfromGR

Darrius doesn’t realize or selectively chooses not to address a woman’s choice in having an abortion due to rape or incest, or the life of the mother you’ll notice.

My very first post was about the life of the mother. You must be thinking about someone else. [quote=“SRfromGR, post:22, topic:9805”]
Think of it…a girl having just had her first menses, gets pregnant by an abusive and sexually perpetrating father.
[/quote]

This is the kind of slippery slope argument that people always complain about people on the far right making. You bring up girls who get raped by their father, as though that is the normal abortion case.

@SRfromGR

Tell me how a zygote is a baby…but first, make sure you look up zygote in the dictionary. Then scientifically tell me what a zygote feels, and then what a fetus feels at 20 weeks.

Please educate yourself. We’re done here.When men get physically pregnant in this world, not some fantasy world you imagine, I’ll listen to your bullshit. Here’s a good article to point you in the right direction:

A zygote is human being in an earlier phase of life, just as a senior citizen is a human being in a late phase of life. The fact that it is young doesn’t mean that it isn’t human, any more than the fact that it is old doesn’t mean that it isn’t human.

And I noticed that you made no mention of the father. But of course, the father isn’t relevant, he is just the one you send the bill to, right?

When women get pregnant on their own without male your bullshit won’t be bullshit, but in the meantime…

[paulw]

It’s not the normal abortion case, but if you advocate a legal regime in which, even as a side effect of “perfectly reasonable” principles, that girl doesn’t have effective access to abortion, you shouldn’t be surprised if people look at you kinda funny.

[darrius]

@paulw

If we had a system where a woman’s doctor saying termination was medically necessary was all it took to have timely access to an abortion, we would in many ways be way ahead of where we are now in many states. …

I think it would be better in both ways. Women could abort the pregnancies that needed to be aborted. And the pregnancies that were healthy pregnancies could be carried to term.

@paulw

Ultimately, any system that goes from “you can disapprove” to “you can forbid” is going end up with dead women, motherless children and worse.

And the system we have now ends up with dead otherwise healthy fetuses.

@paulw

But we have a recent case, for example, where a woman was jailed for trying to kill herself because she preferred being dead to carrying her pregnancy to term. I would call a termination medically necessary in such a case, but there are plenty of people who wouldn’t.

But what would her doctors say?

You will always have extreme cases that are not the norm and distort the conversation. Insanity can and will appear anywhere. But you can’t legislate for those, because you can’t legislate them out.

The problem is we currently have no reasonableness. Everybody wants all or nothing. Nobody wants to consider all parties involved.

@paulw

It’s not the normal abortion case, but if you advocate a legal regime in which, even as a side effect of “perfectly reasonable” principles, that girl doesn’t have effective access to abortion, you shouldn’t be surprised if people look at you kinda funny.

People here are looking at me funny because they are on the far left on this issue and are expecting an echo chamber response. Never mind the fact that they set up a strawman argument that is extremely rare. You could do the same thing to argue any issue from either side.

I don’t think I’m advocating for a legal regime in which this girl could not have access to an abortion. If the doctors’ scientific opinion is that the having the highly inbred offspring of her rapist father does/does not pose a significant risk to the health of a young girl then my opinion doesn’t mean squat, even under my own system.

[sooner]

@Darrius

You just want to play dumb because you know I’m right.

Guess you have nothing intelligent to say in support of what YOU think so all you’re left with is ad-hom attacks

@Darrius

If it’s soley her choice then she should be solely responsible for the consequences of the decision.

The woman isn’t already being held responsible? Really??

@Darrius

Can you prove me wrong with reliable statistics?

Typical response when someone isn’t able to support their position with facts from reputable sources.

So bye bye now…I willing to only waste so much time on you.

[sooner]

@Darrius

A zygote is human being in an earlier phase of life, just as a senior citizen is a human being in a late phase of life.

“zy·gote
ˈzīˌgōt/
noun BIOLOGY
a diploid cell resulting from the fusion of two haploid gametes; a fertilized ovum.”

Right. A zygote is as viable as an entity that can talk, walk, feed itself etc. Right…

You win today’s Sarah Palin medallion for best False Equivalency for that whopper!

If I’d have known I was discussing with a person whose dogma outweighs their intellect I’d never have bothered replying to you in the first place.

@Darrius

The problem is we currently have no reasonableness. Everybody wants all or nothing. Nobody wants to consider all parties involved.

The reasonable thing to do is to let people make their own decisions and stay out of their lives. Anything else is unreasonable. And no, a fetus is is not able to make a decision since it is not a viable human being.

Live life the way you want, make the decisions that affect you and let others will do the same.

We’re done here I think.

[darrius]

@Sooner

The woman isn’t already being held responsible? Really??

What part of “solely” did you miss? If its solely her decision, then its’ solely her responsibility for the consequences.

In the case with a baby the state holds both mother and father responsible. That’s because the state knows that it wasn’t solely her decision. If it were solely her decision then only the mother should be held responsible.

And you challenged what I said, AND have experienced. The burden is on you to prove me wrong. [quote=“Sooner, post:30, topic:9805”]
Right. A zygote is as viable as an entity that can talk, walk, feed itself etc. Right…
[/quote]

Last time I looked a newborn baby couldn’t walk, talk, or feed itself either; but it’s still human. Yeah, its a human separate individual human being.

[quote=“Sooner, post:29, topic:9805”]
Guess you have nothing intelligent to say in support of what YOU think so all you’re left with is ad-hom attacks
[/quote] Hey Pot,

[quote=“Sooner, post:30, topic:9805”]
You win today’s Sarah Palin medallion for best False Equivalency for that whopper!

If I’d have known I was discussing with a person whose dogma outweighs their intellect I’d never have bothered replying to you in the first place.
[/quote]Meet Kettle

@Darrius

The problem is we currently have no reasonableness. Everybody wants all or nothing. Nobody wants to consider all parties involved.

@Sooner

And no, a fetus is is not able to make a decision since it is not a viable human being.

Let me guess, that means you don’t want to consider it, right?

The father?

What am I talking about, of course you don’t want to consider the father. The father’s not affected; it’s only his son or daughter; what does he care; he just better pay that bill when it comes due.

@Sooner

We’re done here I think.

The only intelligent thing you’ve said in this thread.

[sooner]

@Darrius

what I said, AND have experienced.

WOW!

You’re an aborted Zygote? Cool!!

That being the case I retract everything I’ve posted.

WOW, imagine that! Zygotes really are on the opposite side of the human continuum from viable but elderly human beings.

Who knew?

[darrius]

What part of …

@Sooner

We’re done here I think.

@Darrius

The only intelligent thing you’ve said in this thread.

…did you not understand?

[sooner]

You getting mad bro? Please don’t be mad.

I’m just trying to grasp how a Zygote such as yourself functions. I’m obviously not as smart as you so help me out brainiac…

I’m really curious here., what I really want to know is if after you’ve undergone Meiosis for the first time would you like, be willing to go on a double date?

I’ll bet that you two cells would be a really cheap date. You’d probably not eat much and we’d be able to sneak you into a movie theatre without even purchasing a ticket for you! But later, if you wanted to have sex how in the world could we find you?

All very baffling but as a functional Zygote, which as you claim is an entity quite similar to an elderly person but so very much younger, I’m certain you’ll be able to tell us. Please do!

What a fun Zygote you are!!