Discussion for article #239009
The opponents of a deal here are poking holes in the existing deal, because their goal is to derail it, not because it isn’t precisely what they’re seeking. Their actual goal is to keep Iran bottled up, weakened with sanctions, and an international pariah so it’s ability to challenge it’s regional rivals for influence (Saudi Arabia and Israel mainly) is diminished.
If these opponents were given their “Unicorn”, I fully expect that they’d proceed to find unacceptable problems with it and would attempt to tank that as well. Any agreement that would allow Iran to normalize it’s relations with the rest of the world would be unacceptable to them.
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The deal amounts to all parties taking several giant steps back away from a very dangerous cliff. Rejecting the deal would allow a giant step forward, over the cliff, at any time. The former doesn’t guarantee against foolish movement back toward the cliff at some point in the future, but the latter could create a disastrous outcome almost immediately.
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the republicons would have trashed this deal if iran had said it would get rid of all centrafuges all plutonium.all bomb making equipment and say ireal is the nicest mostest perfect country in tha whole wide world and sent them a fruit cake for christmas and it wouldn’t have made a dammed bit of difference… the republicons would be bitchin and moanin that its a horrible deal and bib’s BS would still get his huge panties ina wad…nothing this president has done or will ever do will be something they can get behind…ooops I was wrong they were all happy with the TPP deal so ya know its a loser for this country
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Exactly so. No deal would ever be acceptable to said critics. They want Iran permanently sanctioned and crippled. From Saudi Arbia (and others) not wanting Iranian oil on the market, to Israel (and others) wanting Iran starved of money from said oil sales that helps Iran both domestically and since money is fungible, it’s proxy actions externally.
In other words, their objection is not about the merits of preventing an Iranian nuclear weapon, which any objective reading of this deal does, but rather over issues that have nothing to do with nuclear weapons capabilities. Rather Iranian nuclear weapon capabilities are simply being used as pretext to try and cripple Iran for the reasons which have nothing to do with the issue of nuclear proliferation.
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You had some marginally valid points right up until you drove it off a cliff with your Pavlovian pronouncement on the merits of the TPP.
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And yet I haven’t heard a single one of them articulate a coherent response to this prediction: “the rest of the world will not go along with continued sanctions if we reject this deal.”
Maybe we’ll finally hear some bright ideas this Thursday . . .
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The reason would be that they don’t want to acknowledge that the US can’t simply unilaterally run the world. If they accept that we are part of a coalition, then there goes the whole USA, USA, USA chant that rouses the base on the right to a fever pitch. They are feeding a false idea to an ignorant base that thinks that diplomacy is for pussies.
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“Sowing,” as in wild oats. That other option sounds pretty painful.
Anyway, you’re preaching to the choir here. Tell it to Chuck Schumer.
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IOW, we need a competent and real opposing Party in the US even if adversarial.
The Republicans simply aren’t serious anymore, they are totally predictable in their reactions, never pro-active BTW, and it’s basically another one of their wars, a war on intelligence and respectability.
America is plodding along with one leg hampered and half of our collective intelligence working against the progress.
There is no real argument against the deal, it is far better than expected. It is just the same old wrench in the gears, obstruction.
We need a real Republican Party. That feels very weird to say but it’s true.
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AYATOLLY woN’t FRENch wiTH JEws OR EVEn recoGNIZe them. AmerICA neeDS to LEAD the WORLD baCK TO THE TABLE to GET A BettER DEAL. WHEn STroNG LEADer LIKE TRUMP Or CruZ DEFEats FEckLESS OHBummer’S unConstITUTIONAL THird TERm, the WORld WILL ONce agAIN FEAR AMerICA’s POWER!1!11!one!1!!!
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While I love your satire, this touches on a thing I think is worth underscoring. Iran has had, and continues to have a thriving Jewish population in their country. So the idea that Iranian’s are on a genocidal quest against Jews or Judaism is simply fiction.
That’s not to say that Iran is, by any stretch of the imagination, a beacon of human rights or a pluralistic non-sectarian society. But it is worth underscoring that a lot of the role-casting done by many on the center-right to far right that seeks to make Iran appear as mad Mullah’s hell-bent on eliminating Jews or Judaism, is simply nonsense.
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HE DOes"T LIKE the EURopEAN jeWS whO HAVE a 2000 YEar OLD Fact BASEd biblE CLAIM TO all of PalesTINe, I mean EREtz israEL.
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Republicans these days seem fully invested in the nonsensical idea that all the U.S. has to do is talk tough and our adversaries will eventually just lay down and do everything our way. If the other side is not crying uncle, it must be because we have a "weak’ president. Put a real tough-talkin’ man in there and we’ll get everything we could ever want.
This meme is heavily influenced by the Republican myth that Reagan “won” the Cold War by talking tough. This is nonsense if you know anything about the actual history, but try telling that to a Republican.
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I disagree with the invocation of a unicorn in this context. This is really a variation on the classic Magic Pony Solution.
There’s no sense taking concrete steps towards a complete resolution of this problem now, because right around the corner is the Magic Pony Solution, something that doesn’t yet exist and whose outlines are exceedingly vague, but which will completely take care of the issue.
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It all distills to this: We, the GOP, can’t be having Obama score a major foreign policy victory this close to a national election. Just like there is no form of universal healthcare legislation that Republicans will ever embrace now that the most GOP-friendly form of healthcare possible, ACA (built on Romneycare’s private insurance structure) has been enacted by that most hated of mortal enemies of the GOP, Barack Obama, there is also no form of Iran arms agreement any Democrat (especially Obama) can possibly bring to the table before Congress that the GOP will consider objectively, much less not defecate on with great vigor. The GOP is all about shitting on anything good that happens when it emanates from their political opposition. Politics has turned the GOP into nothing more than power-mongers for billionaires. They can no longer call themselves patriots, as they actively hope for American to suffer economic and foreign policy disaster while Obama is still in the White House, so that they can score political points. Remember, this is the party that has been exploiting the tragic deaths of diplomats and others in Benghazi for politics. There is no depth below which they are not prepared to go for political victory. Thank god the ambition to power, and the lies they are willing to tell to get there, are as transparent as they have proven to be.
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No one country, not even the one with the world’s largest military, by far most nukes, largest consumer-based economy and arguably largest economy by most measure, can “bottle up” Iran economically.
If the Republican RWNJ chorus were to somehow get its act together enough to curtail the U.S. from being seen as a full partner in this deal, that’d do nothing to stop the other signatories from honoring it - and honor it they will.
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While I don’t necessarily disagree with these comments, I think it is deeper than that.
They know permanent international sanctions aren’t happening,
This is about Saudi Arabia, Israel and Turkey actively desiring the United Stated to go to war with Iran.
Or in other words, the U.S, fighting their battles for them.
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Critics have had their bottle-Iran-up solution for years. When the Iranians approached Bush, he ignored them, and they proceeded to build up their nuclear program to today’s level. Iran is involved in supporting terror organizations, in spite of sanctions. All around, the sanctions have not done much to stop Iran. Maybe it’s time to do something more constructive.
What about Israel critics say? Israel is a nuclear power, so Israel has the ability to devastate Iran if it wants to, without the American forces having to lead the charge. Bibi is a big boy, with big boy toys. If he wants war with Iran, he can fight it himself.
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I don’t doubt that they’d prefer that the US would invade Iran to turn it into another um, bastion of freedom… you know, like Iraq or Afghanistan. That said, I can’t imagine that anyone aside from the most delusional of them actually think that a war is a real possibility, so next best is just to keep Iran a pariah state.
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