Discussion for article #228420
Love Affleck, but he was entirely out of line here, talking over people, continually interrupting Harris who, if you’ve ever read his “The End of Faith” book, knows what of he speaks concerning Islam.
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I have to say I backed Maher on this one. I understand where Affleck is coming from, but criticizing a religion doesn’t make you bigoted. I frequently criticize catholicism - doesn’t mean I’m anti-catholic.
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I agree, totally. Affleck’s heart is in the right place, but Harris was speaking about facts based on actual research and data. It’s hard to ignore what he says.
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Sam Harris is a noble man. It’s a shame that in today’s America, you have to go to the circus to try to talk to people.
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I totally get what Affleck is saying, though his argument wasn’t well expressed. The bottom line is that some people are just criticizing the beliefs of Islam - something we should all be able to do. However, the slippery slope here is that these criticisms can be mixed up / co-opted by bigots so easily. Did anybody watch that video with Reza Aslan and the CNN hosts?
That is how you make Ben’s argument.
That being said…Harris’ argument was sound. To note, his concentric circles can also be made for christianity - it’s just that Christianity is 500 years ahead of Islam in it’s cultural development and we live in a country where separation of church and state and freedom of religion were foundational…hence, it gives free reign for ideas to be exchanged and the cream rises to the top, so to speak.
One thing that isn’t mentioned in the Real Time video is that, in many muslim nations, you can’t separate the religion from the country / government. Read Reza’s book No God But God. He explains it pretty well.
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If there was a point to Affleck’s tirade, it was lost in his all hat, no cattle delivery.
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Perhaps Harris made Affleck’s case when he described Islam in terms of a bullseye with jihadis in the center. Such imagery strongly suggests that he views the worst aspects of Islam to be at its very heart, and the more laudable aspects of the religion are peripheral, as if their presence was some sort of outside contamination.
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It’s not that Christianity is “ahead.” It’s that Christianity’s founding was in opposition to the state, while Islam’s founding was not. Islam is perfectly comfortable with the idea that religious leaders should be in charge of the state, while Christianity,from the beginning, has argued that it is separate from the state.
Islam’s position is actually far more understandable than Christianity’s. If God is telling you what to do, you really should organize your state to reflect God’s wishes. The problem is that people who think God is telling them what to do are irrational and dangerous and have no business being in charge of anything.
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There is no question who is sucking all the energy out of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. The image is more of a vortex than bullseye. It is time to confront the dominators for their out of control hate and fear. Including Affleck.
Maybe if Harris would say something in ten words instead of a thousand, someone else wouldn’t need to interrupt. There is a kind of bullying when you try to control a conversation by speaking in a longwinded manner. All that happens is that you say the same thing over and over again up until the moment the host goes, “And that’s all the time we have”, before the other person gets to say anything at all.
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I would like to say that I have noticed a deafening silence when it comes to speaking out against extremist Islamic violence by members of the Muslim leadership. I see comedians and authors rather meekly express that violence is not what they’re about, but no great MLK type figures reminding everyone that violence in the name of religion grossly takes up the name of God in vain. Someone who is on the fence about what the average Muslim thinks could easily fall on the side of the violent, dangerous stereotype. Where is the leadership? I don’t see it.
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Bigots
All need to have someone to feel better than
made easier when there’s a readily identifiable difference
i.e. skin color, clothing, language, gender, disability.
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IMHO: A more racial divide panel would have brought more light to the discussion,only my opinion.For it seems that most discussions on the tube are like the one shown.
Death by media bubble…
Kinda what my post was referring to, Touche !! h.
I didn’t think he was describing a target. The inner circle makes up the core, the fundamentalist of the fait. Christianity could be described the same way.
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I thought Affleck was speaking so fast and was so overheated that he destroyed any chance at rational discussion. I wanted to hear what Kristof had to say, for example, and Ben just bullied his way over him. Dude seemed coked out, over-amped to the extent that I couldn’t really understand what he was saying, much less the people he was interrupting. Its too bad because it was a good panel otherwise.
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------ It’s that Christianity’s founding was in opposition to the state, while Islam’s founding was not. Islam is perfectly comfortable with the idea that religious leaders should be in charge of the state, while Christianity,from the beginning, has argued that it is separate from the state.----
Sure. If you just ignore a couple thousands of years of European History, this statement makes complete sense.
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Yesterday Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti went after ISIS pretty hard. This coalition is a lot more important than Obama gets credit for.
http://news.yahoo.com/top-saudi-cleric-warns-chaos-hajj-speech-134604009.html
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