Discussion for article #235675
Dear Senator Warren: Please keep up your pressure on President Obama. The point I find worth making is that although what is being offered is for the Congress to be able to review this bill - and maybe eventually even to debate it - the price of that is Fast Track, which means no matter how the debate goes the only option will be to vote up or down on the bill, no amendments allowed. That is unacceptable simply because enough Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats can be counted on to vote the bill through. This deal guarantees the bill will pass as drafted. But from what limited information has leaked it is clear, this bill must be able to be amended or no deal. Period.
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Obama…if Warren is wrong- provide proof that she is wrong.
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Warren is the one making the accusations. It is her that provide the proof for her statements.
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I don’t think she CAN provide proof unless she releases the details of the deal so far to the public, which she can’t. Obama can, but he’s saying “trust me.”
Without knowing the details, I’m going to side with her on this right now.
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She is challenging him to prove that the deal is everything Obama says it is. It is up to him to provide material in defense of his position- something he could easily do by opening up the trade agreement and letting everyone read it.
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Interesting. I trust Obama.
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I trust myself…and up until now, it seems nobody trusts us…the ones who have to live with or suffer this deal. Thats all I ask…trust us, the ones who elected you.
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You complete avoid dealing with the rebuttal to your claim that Warren should prove it. She isn’t allowed to discuss any details in the deal. And it is Obama that keeps her from being able to discuss it by keeping the TPP classified. And you trust Obama?!
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I’m w/ Senator Warren on this. Open up the deal to public view.
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What proof would satisfy you? Even she has admitted the deal as negotuated so far ia available to Congress , labor groups and industry groups for review. Is it avaialble to the public no. Why because it is still being negotiated.
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When our country has been negotiating/formulating trade deals with others in the past, were these same exact rules in place? – The rules that prohibit Congress members to openly discuss the details with their constituents?
I am quite certain that the paid lobbyists/representatives for the banks, multi-national corporations, etc., communicate with them about the details and how the agreement might affect them and how to propose changes, help craft the law. Don’t We the People have lobbyists/representatives representing us – ones who can communicate to us the details, listen to our concerns WHILE THE LAW IS BEING CRAFTED – NOT the 30 or 60 day review period where Congress can only vote yes or no. It was my understanding that our elected representatives and senators were supposed to be those very people.
All that said, this is a really interesting set of acts being played for us. I really do believe President Obama will do his best, as he insists he is doing – but that doesn’t always equate to good or fair for us. I do very much trust Senators Warren and Brown, as they’ve been real champions for us for sometime now. There’s something nobody is (allowed to?) telling us and that is why the senators are sounding these alarms. I do not at all believe the senators have any malice toward Pres. Obama.
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In general, I trust President Obama too. However, I think that sometimes he’s over-eager to get agreement from the republicans, at the expense of traditional Democratic positions and the American people. Remember his willingness to sacrifice Social Security cost adjustments as part of the “grand bargain” that he wanted to achieve? Fortunately the republicans were too dysfunctional to negotiate the bargain and it failed, no thanks to President Obama.
I think that maybe fast-track authority on the TPP may be one of those situations where the President is blinded by his anxiousness to achieve a “bipartisan” trade agreement.
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I think it is in the president’s job description. Is it supposed to be a public referendum on everything he does?
We elect congresspeople to do their job and report on it. We will get to bitch about it after he presents it to congress.
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Last I had heard, it was only available to members of Congress to review- not anyone else, and they were not allowed to discuss the contents. There must at least be the promise and the follow through of the promise to make it available to the public once it is negotiated but before it is agreed upon or ratified.
Obama doesn’t deny that the public can’t see the terms of the deal. Obama is assert that congress can see the terms of the deal (but can’t talk about it) is good enough.
Yes, and these things are always negotiated in this manner. There will be 2-4 months for the public to debate and review the deal once a deal is made, before Congress will even vote on it. And it’s completely disingenuous to suggest only Obama has the authority to make the negotiations public. There are 11 other countries involved and those countries have an interest in keeping certain factions in their countries from taking apart the deal and the concessions made in the deal. They, much like Obama, want to have a final deal in place before they present it to the public to be ripped apart by special interests groups. To do otherwise just doesn’t make any damn sense. I stand with the man I twice voted for and would vote for again-President Barack Obama.
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If members of Congress can see it, it isn’t really “secret.” They cannot discuss it with the public? Okay. It’s being negotiated. When deals are negotiated, it’s sensitive. Members of Congress are there to represent us. If they can see it, it’s not just “secret” or something. Debate the details, not this phony side issue.
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Do you know if these same rules were applied to all other trade deals as they were being developed, etc.? I do believe Pres. Obama believes he is doing well by us, but I find it more than just frustrating that the banks and multi-national corps can sit in on and participate in the crafting of this very far-reaching deal–and discuss it amongst themselves and their corporate boards, etc., but the reps for We the People aren’t allowed to do as much. An up-or-down vote on an unamendable piece of legislation (and within a very short time period when compared to how long the thing has been officially created from start to now) doesn’t equate.
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The TPP is about expanding Labor Rights globally. It’s too bad unions, a disappearing segment of our society don’t get that. Of course, if you said expanding labor rights and offering environmental protections, the GOP would suddenly freak out and oppose this deal.
There is so much misinformation going on here, it is just sad. Of course it would help (no it wouldn’t) b if Congress saw the deal because Congress would find some nit to pick apart and breathe talking points on Fox News forever.
Expanding labor rights and environmental protections is moving forward, plus Congress has purview to review any deal before it is made.
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