Discussion for article #235569
âThe government doesnât want you to read this massive new trade agreement. Itâs top secret,â Warren wrote in the email. âWhy? Hereâs the real answer people have given me: âWe canât make this deal public because if the American people saw what was in it, they would be opposed to it.ââ
This is really, incredibly dishonest. They havenât reached a deal yet, thatâs why we havenât seen the deal. To claim we havenât seen it because the administration is trying to hide it from us is the exact same shit Republicans are claiming with the Iran Nuke Deal.
"Weâve all seen the tricks and traps that corporations hide in the fine print of contracts. Weâve all seen the provisions they slip into legislation to rig the game in their favor. Now just imagine what they have done working behind closed doors with TPP.
No, I donât need to imagine because the president has told us and heâs told you 17 freakinâ times. Thatâs why youâre asking me to imagine, because you ultimately know what youâre suggesting isnât true.
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Two adults can disagree without it being an âattackâ that one has to âhit backâ over.
When a statement begins with âI love Elizabeth Warrenâ, then itâs not an âattackâ.
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Making the document available to the public doesnât seem an unreasonable requestâŚ
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I hate it when Mom and Dad fight!
I wish Warren hadnât taken the political campaign tone in her e-mail. I get that sheâs concerned about the TPP, and I believe that if sheâs concerned then probably I should not be entirely sanguine about the not-yet-a-deal. But I agree with earlier commenters that this âhit backâ mentality and âjust imagine the HORRIBLE THINGS THEY MIGHT DO TO YOUâ message is not warranted.
I doubt Sen. Warren actually writes her own tweets; I wish sheâd tell her staff to chill out a bit on the TPP. Make your point about transparency, but donât turn it into a boogeyman like the GOP did the ACA. Weâre the party of adults, letâs disagree and argue like adults.
Edit to add: the left in general needs to be economic realists on the topic of free trade. Weâre the side of fact-based analysis, right? Like capitalism, free trade - properly regulated - can be a net positive for the country. Also, we will not ever be able to save all jobs everywhere for all time. As industries mature and become commoditized, advanced countries like ours move on to newer, higher-tech, more profitable markets while the commodity industries move to where the cheaper labor is. This cannot be stopped (and it is, in the long run, a good thing) - it can only be managed, to ensure minimum hardship on the working population.
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The full text of the deal with be under public review for one month before any vote.
WASHINGTON â Republican lawmakers and the White House have agreed to subject any trade deal negotiated by President Obama to a monthslong review by Congress and the public, a concession aimed at winning the support of Democrats who view trade agreements as a threat to American workers.
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âTrade dealâ if reflexively toxic to the liberal base, just like the words ânuclear energyâ. I wish theyâd stop being so reflexive.
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Austen GOOLSBY and Larry SUMMERS, of course, would know.
But, I think the story here is that the Barack Obama claque (Big Law rather than Big Labor) have financed two national campaigns and, now, probably a Library or Foundation or something by selling access to âtrade dealsâ.
These are artifacts of collusive bargaining. That is how Big Labor does contracts and pensions. So, there is no technical or moral distinction between the two âinsiderâ factions.
This has little to do with free or strategic trade: It is all about creation or protection of financial, industrial, and commercial concessions. Some of the foreign ones may actually be âinfantâ (declining economies of scale) but most of them and all of ours are just monopoly rent extraction and sharing among the concession holders and their factors.
This is pre-industrial and pre-capitalist: For all the legal humbug and obscurantism, it really fits best with piratical or predatory barter in arms, drugs, and migrants or tech and sex slaves. This is how Big Law finances all its ostensible charity and pro bono gestures. For all their sanctimonious or jingoistic palaver, neither partyâs mercenary operatives can resist this much less oppose it despite what it entails: criminality on the fringe and war at the core.
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I canât think of any deal the US would put together that EVERYONE would get behind.
When will those firefighters starting running Congress? Now thereâs some up or down voting.
Thatâs whatâs bothering me too. I love Sen. Warren too, but I donât like the feeling that sheâs demonizing this trade agreement for political gain, because itâs the kind of thing that rallies the left, particularly her base of support. Since sheâs already being dishonest about portions of the deal and having been briefed 17 times, I find it especially hard to believe this is really about the substance of the agreement and not political theater.
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We all need to read these two books (both short)
âThe Choice: A Fable of Free Trade and Protectionâ (http://www.amazon.com/The-Choice-Fable-Protection-Edition/dp/0131433547)
âThe Travels of a T-Shirt in the Global Economyâ. (http://www.amazon.com/The-Travels-T-Shirt-Global-Economy/dp/0471648493)
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Republicans in Congress want it fast trackedâŚif that doesnât ring alarms then you are tone deaf. Hereâs a real good article on it http://www.epi.org/publication/tpp-unlikely-to-be-good-deal-for-american-workers/
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Has it been finalized or is it still being negotiated?
Maybe she should write a letter to the other nations telling them âthey canât trust a trade deal negotiated by President Obamaâ. 
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Probably not WHILE the negotiations are ongoing?
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It is nice to see that two people from the same party can disagree about something. This idea that there are only two sides to every issue and Republicans take one side and Democrats the other is really getting old.
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Yes, but both âtrade dealsâ and ânuclear energyâ or, for that matter, any sort of âenergyâ involving a government monopoly and privatization of police powers strain the limits of public trust.
This stuff is very lucrative for financial intermediaries who minimize public benefit and maximize public risk arising from âdealsâ where there is legalistic diffusion of any responsibility rather planning, regulation, accountability.
Suppressed as well are oldfangled price-cleared markets. In those the principals, their factors, and lawyers are at risk rather than immunized from prosecution and indemnified for losses or even from surveillance from those charged with watching the fringes of war, commerce, and piracy or brigandage â now called âterrorismâ. These all involve plain old fraud at the core, specifically privatization of public power and extraction of monopoly rent. This is now far to big and extensive to prosecute when involving the complicity or negligence of our political elites, including both parties.
So, of course, from the moderately âliberalâ base of the Democratic Party to the right-wing âfringeâ of the GOP, these trade deals are not just unpopular they erode trust in government very generally, especially where a well-informed middle should be.
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Sheâs losing a little bit of my respect here. This is politics, not honesty - good, populist politics, Iâll give her that, but still politics. The deal is still under negotiation, and the mere fact that China is involved means that secrecy was probably a prerequisite to negotiations.
Iâll be concerned if the deal is finalized and still isnât released to the public before its ratified. Thatâs when my suspicions will be raised. Until that happens Iâm not freaking out over something I can only speculate about.
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However, it canât be filibustered, and with Republican majorities in both houses we will have one month to review a done deal.
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Itâs not totally dishonest, Pluck: according to your quote, Warren clearly says âHereâs the real answer people have given meâ. Sheâs not saying thatâs her answer, only the answer some people have given her. Sneaky, maybe, but not totally dishonest.
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Itâs click-bait. You see it time and time again. Sadly itâs bled over to Daily Kos, where youâll see diaries claiming Obama âtrashedâ and âslammedâ Warren. Itâs over-the-top sensationalism that is meant to evoke a reaction - and it works.
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