Discussion: Unraveling The Nazi Origins Of The American Space Program

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War - the great incentive for scientific discoveries.

Partly out of desperation, partly out of need, and often spiced with unique, irreplaceable concentration of resources, wars tend to create far more inventions, technologies, scientific discoveries, than times of peace.

If there was peace, would nuclear power or the bomb have been created? If there was peace, would the Gatling gun have been designed? And what of the tank? The airplane? C-4?

War drives science as much as science drives war.

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Also M&Ms.

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I’d conjecture authoritarianism (leaders, followers) is the forcing function of historical miseries. It’s just built into the DNA of too many folks.

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My parents evinced little interest in the moon landing, but allowed me stay up late to watch Neil Armstrong step off the ladder in black and white…

Gather 'round while I sing you
Of Wernher von Braun
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience
Call him a Nazi, he won’t even frown
“Nazi, Schmazi!” says Wernher von Braun

Don’t say that he’s hypocritical
Say rather that he’s apolitical
“Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That’s not my department!” says Wernher von Braun

Some have harsh words for this man of renown
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude
Like the widows and cripples in old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun

You too may be a big hero
Once you’ve learned to count backwards to zero
“In German, und Englisch, I know how to count down
Und I’m learning Chinese!” says Wernher von Braun.

  • Tom Lehrer
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If you want to quote Tom Lehrer, please mention his name, he’s still around, btw., aged 91.

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Done. Figured most TPM commentators know the tune already. We had the LP, but I didn’t make the connection until several years later.

PS You’ve got the honor of making my laptop pop up a reply notification for the first time ever. I must have clicked “allow” by mistake :blush:

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Tom Lehrer performed in Denmark and was hugely popular, his dry wit was much appreciated .

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Not only was von Braun a Nazi, but he was the subject of a furious race to acquire him and his team by the USA and USSR. After the war, Russia took million and millions of people back to Russia. They dismantled factories, and sent them back to USSR. And they acquired scientists, technicians, and other skilled persons.

It’s very lucky that the USA was able to get von Braun and his team. They pushed US space science ahead by many years.

Developments in USA space science led to the development of miniaturization and size reduction. This led, in turn, and in conjunction with the development of the transistor, to the hand-held calculator, the hand-held phone, and many other devices. And in turn, these led to the internet. While I know that the internet idea was first shown by Berners-Lee at CERN, antecedents go back to many devices from the USA space race.

And we are going back to the moon - 2024 will see boots on the moon again.

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This story is well-known of course. The first rocket used to launch the first two US Mercury astronauts into space, the Redstone, was basically just a repackaged V2.

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Well known to baby-boomers, but to millennials and Gen-Xers? Many of them apparently are not clear on the Holocaust, WWII, WWI, communism, and many other things. So, a book like this is probably well timed.

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One of the earliest forms of artillery, the Ballista (also, Balista) was first utilized
in siege warfare between 300 and 400 b.c.

Von Braun’s bio: I Aim At The Stars
Mort Sahl’s subtitle: But Sometimes I Hit London

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Coming up the to 50th anniversary of Apollo 11.

If you’d like a really detailed/non-pictured version of the (Nazis) story, there are a few but I recommend this one.

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Yes, but why? Because Trump heard someone on Trump News say it was a good idea? What is the purpose, the plan? My guess is either frivolous (“See Me!”) or mercenary. Maybe the former for Trump and the later for whoever put that bug in his brain.

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Yes, why? We have a very detailed plan for the next 20-30 years in space. I occasionally review grants for NASA, and one of the great treats is to see the presentation about NASA’s future at the start of each review session.

Why? To beat the Chinese. To continue our development. To build a platform to move to Mars. Current plans suggest a Mars mission in 10-12 years. If significant health challenges can be addressed.

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This one’s pretty good…

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It’s a constant amazement that the space programme grew out of the darkest places of the 20th century - German aggression, the Holocaust, the atomic arms race, the US South, the Gulag - but its result was this amazingly transcendent moment in history. Putting people on the moon! Looking back on Earth as this tiny precious blue marble in an infinite vacuum!

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Von Braun is buried in a cemetery in Alexandria, Virginia. There is often a German flag on the headstone and once even a Saturn 5 model rocket.

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“While I know that the internet idea was first shown by Berners-Lee at CERN”
Nope. The Internet was invented in 1969. It was commissioned by Bob Taylor of ARPA (a govt research agency- Advanced Research Projects Agency) as the ARPANET with the goal of interconnecting research universities associated with ARPA. It was based upon concepts promulgated in the 1950’s and 1960’s by J.C.R.Licklider and others.

Tim Berners Lee invented the World Wide Web in 1989. An information system which runs on the Internet.

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