Discussion: Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane, Says It Violated Airspace

Discussion for article #243142

Turkey must be run by a bunch of stupid bastards to do this. NATO better do something – now.

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Don´t you think NATO´s involvement might add fuel to the fire? Don´t we have enough of that already?

Besides, Russia and Turkey have a 350 year history of war; they don´t need any help to start escalating.

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Russia has been pushing envelopes all over the world for some time now. Someone bit back.

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TV news says one of the pilots is dead.

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It’s possible they never quite strayed into Turkish airspace, but Turkey didn’t like them bombing Turkmen villages and decided to send a message.

Of course, I doubt we’ll ever know.

Also interesting that the Russians aren’t accusing the Turks of responsibility, they’re actually avoiding an escalation by implying the fire came from the ground in Syria.

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That’ll just add fuel to Russia’s fire. Sorry to hear that, for the pilot’s family and friends.

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Considering the animosity already there–and, as you point out, the current bombing of Turkmen villages–who would we believe anyway? Even if the U.S. came out and stated that reconnaissance radar, etc., detected a breach of airspace not many would believe them or care. My only hope here is that this incident doesn’t lead to more cold air between Russia and the U.S.

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Tomorrow? Brazil attacks Laos.

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The world is a much more complicated place than many truly ignorant political pundits suspect. Sometimes, countries work together with true allies and friends, people who share their worldview. Other times governments have to hold their noses and work with people whose views are odious.

That country may not be a friend, but it might be an enemy of an enemy.

I can guarantee you on this one that there are far more than Fifty Shades of Grey.

Turkey is a NATO member country in good standing. This does not mean that the government of Turkey is composed of “good guys.” President Erdogan is a fundamentalist, and has been something of a supporter of ISIL. He may be a supporter because this is what he absolutely believes. He may also be a supporter because he needs fundamentalist votes to stay in office. He has managed, until now, to play both sides against one another without getting caught.

I doubt NATO, of which Turkey remains a member in good standing, will do anything. Turkey has airbases west needs.

The Turks have a great deal to fear from the Russians, and the Russian seizures of the Crimea, and eastern Ukraine, were not lost on Ersogan. He has good reason to suspect he might be next.

The Turks, who have sat by and allowed the completely porous border with Syria to become not just a gateway for refugees fleeting Syria, but also an easy transit point in and out of Syria, through which terroriss like the Parisian mad bombers apparently move with impunity have a lot to fear from the Russians.

The orbits shift in terms of rationality was Russian President Vladimir Putin becomes involved. I think this quote, from “the Hunt for Red October” best summarizes what might come next:

Admiral Josh Painter: This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.--Hunt for Red October.
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NATO is said to be holding an emergency meeting this morning.

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All the details about the flight path and justifications and such are only mildly interesting.

What’s VERY interesting is that Turkey shot down a Russian plane. Says a bunch about Russia’s air force that Putin won’t want anyone to notice.

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According to the flight data from Turkish authorities (Saw this on Al Jazeera) - the russian plane flew over Turkey not once but twice before it was shot down. Talk about a deliberate provocation… And yet over a spot that any reasonable person would think ‘oh it was a mistake’

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See, now, if Trump were President today, we’d just go over there and kick their asses. I’m sure that would work out really well.

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That’s a huge reach. Turkey is a member of NATO, as you stated, nor are there any “modern historical” justifications for Russia to claim Turkish territory. Attacking Turkey unprovoked would mean engaging with NATO, no ifs, ands, or buts. Putin isn’t about to go there.

Likewise, there is no indication at all that any of the Paris attackers moved through Syria. Indeed, there is questionable evidence that two many have entered through Greece (Turkey and Greece are NOT the same place; they despise each other and have for centuries) via the island of Leros. And of course, all substantiated evidence is still pointing at all the terrorists in Paris being European, either French or Belgian.

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Am I the only one who thought this was an Onion headline?
I must be too ready for Thanksgiving.

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No he doesn’t. The Russians are not going to try and annex Turkey. Putin is a lot of things and he likes to poke the sleeping bear, but he is not stupid. Invasion of Turkey would bring down the whole of NATO on his head and he has no desire to engage in that war. Right now he is in a position of power because he’ll play a pivotal role in reining in Syria. He isn’t about to damage that new found importance in the international community by running off half-cocked and invading Turkey.

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This will set a lot back. If ISIS is the object ( with Russia that may not be the case ) fights between the countries fighting ISIS only serve ISIS. The Russians have a decision to make. They are nothing of what they used to be. They do have a large military but it pales in technology and capability to that of the USA and Europe. There will never be a USSR again. I imagine Putin’s getting some home town praise for his bravado but in time, just like our show off Bush, they will tire of him and the disasters he causes Mother Russia. I doubt this is a wake-up call for him.

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His Air Force is powerful but it’s far behind the capability of the West. It’s been known for a long time that modern American Air Craft can fly circles around what’s coming out of Russia. In this case you saw some of that.

Thanks for this. Well-informed quality data is valuable and in perennially short supply.