Discussion: Trump To Black Voters: 'What The Hell Do You Have To Lose?'

This seems like a good place to give a vote of thanks to MSNBC’s Joy Reid. I just saw her shut down a Trump surrogate during a discussion of Trump’s attempt to pander to African Americans. She had a guest who was apparently one of the rare ministers of an African American church that supports Trump. She asked him a question if he thought Trump still supported his Birther claims and he came back with an irrelevant talking point about how Hillary started the Birther movement. She started talking over him, saying “Oh no, you don’t get to come on my program and make stuff up.” The guest kept spouting his irrational claims and she kept talking over him until she said “This interview is over” and they cut away.

Bravo.

We have got to find a clip of that interview. Finally there are a few real journalists who are doing their job right.

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The recessions prior to 2008, also averaged a loss of GDP of around 2% or less and largely affected small sectors of the US economy

The 2008 recession had a GDP loss of 5.1% in the US alone, and was global in its reach…

There is a reason it was called the GREAT Recession.

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when the last seven recessions lasted an average of 18 months.

That’s because those seven recessions—and the five previous to those dating back to the '37-'38 recession—were all typical business cycle recessions. The Great Recession of 2007-09 was, by huge contrast, a general worldwide financial collapse—something not seen since the Great Depression. It’s a simple, established fact that financial collapses take much longer to recover from than normal business cycle recessions.

While most economists who aren’t hiding up the ass of the Republican Party openly acknowledge that the stimulus package that Congress passed during Obama’s first term was significantly smaller than it should have been, the other fact you’re not mentioning is that it took over $700 billion to prop up the teetering financial markets and institutions—money that otherwise could have gone towards a direct stimulus. The notion that we should have just let all the financial institutions die and everything would have been fine is farcical.

I don’t agree with every economic or fiscal decision that Obama was able to make; I think he erred in not making a much more aggressive pitch for a larger stimulus package, and should have been much more forceful in communicating the fact that the stimulus package the Republicans agreed to was only enough to stop imminent collapse, and that it was not going to help the economy recover nearly as quickly as the nation expected or wanted. However, considering the open, overt, and gleefully unapologetic obstructionism that the GOP engaged in even before Obama took the oath of office, the idea that he alone could have fashioned a much greater economic package to directly aid the African American community is a highly selective view of reality.

It’s an unfortunate fact that poor people, regardless of their color or ethnic background, are far more likely to suffer crippling economic losses in hard times if for no other reason they have no financial cushion and few financially advantaged social connections to help them through the worst part. The statistics for the slow economic recovery of African Americans are, I’d bet, similar in nature to those for poor Hispanics and poor white Americans as well.

"Even the timing of austerity over the current recovery is
fairly easy to pinpoint in actions undertaken by Republicans in
Congress. The Obama administration championed and signed the ARRA during
the recession in early 2009, and the law led to a sharp uptick in
government spending that persisted throughout the early stages of the
recovery.

Through the end of 2010 (when the ARRA had mostly petered out), total
government spending per capita was not that different than in previous
recoveries (and actually rose more rapidly than in previous cycles
during the recession phase). But in 2011 Republicans in the House of
Representatives demanded spending cuts as a precondition for raising the
debt ceiling, a vote that had historically been pro-forma (the ceiling
has been raised 78 times just since 1962). The resulting Budget Control
Act of 2011 has significantly reduced the growth of discretionary
spending. Both in word and deed, Republican lawmakers have embraced and
enforced fiscal austerity, and the result has been the most discouraging
recovery on record.

Conclusion
The recovery since 2009 has been historically slow, and the
disappointing pace can be explained entirely by the fiscal austerity
imposed by Republicans in Congress.

Of course, other national policymakers are not completely blameless.
While the Federal Reserve pushed beyond the bounds of conventional
monetary policy to fight the recession and aid recovery, there are
reasons to think that it could have done more. The Obama administration
issued several calls for more expansionary fiscal policy (like the
American Jobs Act of 2010), but it had no unilateral power to pass more
expansionary policy. Yet it could have made a louder and more consistent
case that the slow recovery had concrete, identifiable roots in
decisions made by Congress. Had the Obama administration made such a
powerful case for why austerity was hampering growth, it could have
educated the public and potentially helped build support for more
sensible policy the next time the United States faces a recession.
But these caveats about the Fed and the Obama administration are
mostly quibbling. By far the biggest drag on growth throughout the
recovery from the Great Recession has been the fiscal policy forced upon
us by Republican lawmakers in Congress and austerity-minded state
legislatures and governors."

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Was that Gilmore? I heard part of the clip where he tried to deflect a comment about Trump’s debt to the Bank of China with some BS about the Clinton Foundation accepting donations from foreign donors. When Joy said that it was not illegal, he tried to nitpick. Unbelievable.

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So, how long before they hire Paula Deen to butter up Trump?

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Considering the fact that not even Barack Obama was able to get 100% of the African American vote, it’s unrealistic to assume that Trump won’t get several percentage points. I doubt he’ll get up to 10%, but it won’t be zero, either.

Hell, Trump will get some of the Hispanic vote, too. Considering his words kicking off his campaign that may seem bizarre, but then consider the fact of the Log Cabin Republicans. Humans are strange creatures in the aggregate.

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Yes, and to that I would add the contractionary policies of state governments under Republican control, who implemented massive layoffs and cut taxes on the rich and businesses, and who refused the massive injection of cash from Medicaid expansion. These policies helped to offset the expansionary effect of the 2009 stimulus.

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Obama’s fault! All of it!

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The source you quoted most certainly did, comparing “average” unemployment rates during the Bush and Obama years, while not mentioning that the unemployment rate shot up, disastrously, toward the end of the Bush years, and has headed down, significantly, during the Obama years. Everything is not wonderful and rosy, especially in poor and minority communities, we all know that. But there is a much better chance of improvement under a Democratic administration and Congress, than under a Trumpublican regime. Beyond that, I will just refer you to @bluestatedon 's excellent post.

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There’s no way in hell that I’d eat meatloaf cooked by this creature:

In her kitchen, “meatloaf” probably meant “neighborhood squirrels sadistically tortured and killed by my son Donald”

Omarosa Manigault (director of Trump’s African-American outreach) would certainly disagree with you. Additionally you "will have to bow down to President Trump.”

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My guess is he’s emulating Bernie.

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You are ignoring the very real likelihood that were it not for Obama and his policies, this would instead be referenced as the 2nd Great Depression. We are damned lucky that didn’t happen, and the US has by far outstripped the world in recovering from it.

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Jeebus. Way to get “the blacks” vote, there, fella.

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Disagree. This special kind of stupid is environmental or learned behavior.

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Citing facts to Darcy is equivalent to citing facts to Trump

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More facts that Darcy is not interested in.

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I know. :wink: It just seemed so much more succinct than the rest of those doing battle with him/her.

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I’m not sure who the guest was. I’m not really that sure I got Joy Reid right, I had to look her up. I wasn’t really watching that closely, I tend to ignore such rampantly stupid Trump surrogates. But then I heard her ask the question about Birtherism, and I started paying attention because that is the point I’d hammer Trump with. And then she surprised me by shutting him down when he made the idiotic claim that Hillary created Birtherism. The Swiftboat brigade is hard at work.

I think the show might be a rerun from Friday, I just saw it Saturday morning, I think those shows are reruns.

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Correct, when someone other than the top 2% takes a hit it means Johnny or Sally can’t go to college, no vacations, no steak but rather hamburger. On the other hand for the lucky draw folks it means just 3 instead of 4 vacations, having to hit a savings account for the new car rather than having the cash on hand. It for sure has minimal effects on the kids plans for higher education. It also means that savings are not wiped out just slowed down a smidgen.

Always laughed when the C level, including me as a COO/CTO, took a hit during a “fiscal fitness” episode, just meant that our bonus was quietly, very quietly pushed back a month into the 1st qtr. For those not within management it meant zero raise for the year. It was especially bad when managers put their favorites in the front of the line every year, this meant that the favorite was not affected by 4th quarter issues. Those others put last multiple times, may be on their 2nd or 3rd year without a raise or other increase. They may also have been locked out of promotion cycles that have been 'frozen", thus falling even farther behind.

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