This is exactly what the republicans want at this point. Getting the full report is a long time coming, if it ever comes at all. They have the taking points they want and need right now so why would they fuck that up with actual information without a long protracted fight?
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You really think that Republican Senators want the Democrats to impeach Trump?
You really think Republican Senators want to have a vote to convict or not after a prosecutor has laid out the case in public?
You really think that Republican Senators want the Senate tied up for months in a trial, and the media focused on it for even longer?
Impeachment would unite Democrats and divide Republicans. The Republicans are the ones who don’t want impeachment and a Senate trial, regardless of the outcome.
But Democrats seem to always do what their Republican Daddy’s want.
Impeachment Now!
I hate to say this, but this type of defeatist attitude is the reason Democrats are screwed. Are you suggesting that unless the path to victory is clear, you don’t do anything? That’s pretty cowardly and that’s what the country sees – a complete and total unwillingness to fight and put forth a very easy argument. This argument is that Trump is fundamentally unfit to be president because he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors.
The Blues want everyone else (e.g. Mueller) to do the dirty work, but Mueller saw this as fundamentally a political problem and threw the ball back into Congress where it belongs. Now, the Dems should grow some courage and make the argument with no hesitation to the American people and let the chips fall where they may.
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As long as there aren’t close to 67 votes in the Senate the republicans are more than happy to have the impeachment argument.
You really think that Republican Senators want the Democrats to impeach Trump? Yes.
You really think Republican Senators want to have a vote to convict or not after a prosecutor has laid out the case in public? Once the state investigations bare fruit that prosecutor would have a case. Until then its just a shouting match between Dems and repubs.
Impeachment would unite Democrats and divide Republicans. Only after the on going investigations bare fruit. Until then the republicans are a solid block that say, Fuck You, America.
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Name one Republican Senator that wants the Democrats to impeach Trump. Just one.
Impeachment starts with House Impeachment Hearings. Let’s start there.
Unfortunately, Nancy Pelosi wants to keep Trump in the White House because she believes it is to her personal political advantage to do so. And she is probably right about that.
We ALL want the Traitor-on-Chief impeached, convicted, and imprisoned . However, we should not utter the “I” word in public. Why? The moment an impeachment process gets underway, every single political story and discussion from now until November 3, 2020 will be filtered through that lense. If there is no move to impeach, the GOPsters lose their most effective talking point.
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“But Trump is guilty of Treason! We have irrefutable evidence! If he’s not guilty then why does he act guilty?” These are all arguments that Democrats, Democratic elected officials, and the corporate media have made, repeatedly, over the past two-and-a-half years. Are you saying it’s all bullshit? If not, and if all of the above is true, then why do you want Democrats to abdicate their responsibility to hold Trump accountable for his crimes?
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I’m not arguing that Trump is not a treasonous scum. Short of verdicts handed down in a court of law all the arguing between Dems and republicans is just political BS that will eat up time before the election. Barr just handed them the perfect spin that will last until 2020. The clock is going to be run out until the election so the best thing the Dems can do is make their case how they will improve America.
Like I said earlier, If any of the investigations bare fruit and the corruption becomes
obvious, so obvious it can’t be ignored, like it did when the Nixon
tapes were revealed, then, by all means, push for impeachment. Until
then it’d just be pissing in to the wind and helping the republicans. To argue over impeachements instead if issues only helps the repubs.
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If you don’t have enough players, you shouldn’t take the field. We don’t have the votes to finish the job.
No one would love to see this motherfucker and his entire filthy crew stripped of power and in prison for life more than I would. But what would it be like if the Dems in the house impeached and the Senate acquitted? It would be a huge victory for trump and fuel his win in 2020. We’ve seen the effect of Barr spinning the Mueller report. They’ve declared a complete and total exoneration and will now proceed to prosecute the Democrats for collusion with Russia. Multiply that by a million to imagine how stupidly a failed impeachment effort would go.
You think everybody can see his obvious criminality and would vote against him in 2020? Nope. An impeachment action would bolster his support, in the media and in the minds of those who don’t pay much attention to politics - in other words, most people. Spinning our wheels on an impeachment that fails to remove him from office will only grease the skids to a trump victory.
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Au contraire. I am anything but defeatist. I will do all in my power to see that Trump is evicted from the White House. (After which it should be cleaned by a hazmat crew.) But that aim does not motivate me to spend energy on efforts that promise little chance of success, and may well strengthen him. And impeachment, at this stage, is such an effort.
Total effort to rid us of Donald Trump does not mean using any tactic, any weapon that may come to hand. That would be the path of desperation. We’re smarter than he and his allies are, right? Then let’s fight hard, and fight smart.
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Furthermore, if the Democratic House impeaches and the Republican Senate acquits, it’s another grand victory for the invincible leader! This will turn the media and popular spin in his favor and give him momentum to commit more heinous wreckage on our nation and its people. For 4 more years.
If we start impeachment, we have to be able to ensure removal from office. Anything less is disaster for us.
Don’t ignore the dozens of Congressional investigations that are following up on Mueller’s findings and making the case for criminal prosecution. This is the way to use Congressional power to expose the truth and stop the encroaching disease of trumpism.
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I think you are the one who needs a history lesson. “Bad shit” did not happen to the Republicans when they impeached Bill Clinton. In the 2000 elections they held the House and the Senate (barely), and they won the Presidency.
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We all know trump is guilty. Even the Republicans know. But it’s political suicide for them to admit it, so they all play along to save their hides.
The fact is that we need a certain number of Republicans to drop their guard and admit that there are sufficient grounds to remove trump from office. Mitch McConnell has a stranglehold on them, and he is powerful enough to destroy them if they don’t comply. We may never see enough Republicans willing to buck McConnell. They have signed their deal with the devil.
So we thought maybe the Mueller report would convincingly expose the venal criminality of this whole administration, the crime family and the mob organization that grifts its way through scams and money-laundering. It didn’t happen. Other law enforcement agencies may yet sweep them up in their nets. For now Congress must use what power it has wisely.
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Maybe you could be a little less condescending about someone who’s playing an important role & one that’s very different from Pelosi’s important role?
It makes perfect sense for Pelosi to not be publicly pressing for impeachment. It also makes perfect sense for other Democrats, with different constituencies (both in their districts and nationally in terms of appeal), to be seriously looking at it. The party itself needs to be big enough to contain a variance of opinion on things like this.
Part of the reason that Pelosi needs to not be backing impeachment right now is that any move to impeach has to be organic and fact driven, not coming from leadership as a tactic. Tlaib’s letter is about an inquiry to determine whether there is grounds for impeachment. Its a very good way to get the ball on the floor, even if we are a ways from taking it down the court and taking a shot.
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The actual Mueller report may do this. Maybe.
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I absolutely agree that impeachment shouldn’t be started unless we have the votes, but note that this letter is urging an inquiry, not impeachment itself.
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If you really mean the first two statements, then the third is at best morally ambiguous.
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Well said.
(Doesn’t mean Pelosi’s task is an easy one.)
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Except they didn’t “Win” they “STOLE”
This is where we disagree. It’s not about tactically winning this battle, even though the odds are against it. It’s about putting up a fight and letting the public see that you’re willing to put up a vigorous fight. I contend that the reason the public has abandoned the Democratic party is because they see that if the Dems are not willing to fight for something that is brutally obvious (that Trump is unfit, criminal, and illegitimate) and push through the weaponized insincerity and legalistic nonsense that amounts to an argument on the other side, how are the Dems ever going to be able to take on corporate interests or secure healthcare.
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