Discussion: The ‘Twisted World’ Elliot Rodger Lived In

Discussion for article #223196

I think that there is more to it than this young man thinking that woman were just play things. I believe that if he wanted a relationship with a woman that he could have had one if he wanted one. I believe that this young man wanted Miss Universe and would not be satisfied with anyone else. Obviously he grew up in culture of money and anything you wanted was yours if you have the money. Why he was focused on the prom queens shows how shallow his world was. He obviously thought that of who he was growing up privileged that only the most beautiful was worthy of him. That is so sad when if he would have not been so shallow when it came to women and their looks and his male egotism and sexist views of women he might have had a real relationship with someone. Maybe not Miss Universe, but Miss Congeniality. Of course I have not been young for many years, so I am no expert. He was obviously a very disturbed individual who needed help. It was a terrible and senseless tragedy that his dad didn’t get to his son in time.

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I know Rodger suffered from serious mental issues, but just how unusual is misogyny and narcissism among 19-20 year old college men? And just how unusual is narcissism and misandry among young college aged women? Nearly all college aged kids get over being 20. We all live in a society that encourages objectification of the opposite sex. Don’t believe me just read any of a dozen magazines focusing on the lives of movie stars. I think there is something more, something we are all missing, in this story. To me this is more like a suicide that turned into a murder suicide than anything else.

I think there is a mental health angle to this story that is being ignored. It isn’t that Rodger didn’t signal his intentions. It isn’t even that his family didn’t try to sound an alarm. Seven young people might be alive today if his cries had been heard and acted upon.

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Misandry is not a real problem: http://books.google.com/books?id=3nnxlqbN-IEC&pg=PA107#v=onepage&q&f=false

Also, to deal with this as if it’s this one troubled young man, rather than a societal issue, is to guarantee that this problem will never be solved.

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I know what misandry means. Whether it is a real problem I will leave to the young women who swoon over Hugh Jackman or who ever is the objectified man of the moment.

If you don’t correctly identify this problem and try to solve some other problem you won’t solve this problem.

As you see it, what is “this problem?”

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Lots of articles about Rodger , yet none about his victims .

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Perhaps my comment may seem too analytical and insensitive for some, but emotions aside, what the Isla Vista shootings look like to me is a “Black Swan Event” as explained by the Lebanese-American Statistician, Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Taleb asserts:

What we call here a Black Swan is an event with the following three attributes.
First, it is an outlier, as it lies outside the realm of regular expectations, because nothing in the past can convincingly point to its possibility. Second, it carries an extreme 'impact'. Third, in spite of its outlier status, human nature makes us concoct explanations for its occurrence after the fact, making it explainable and predictable.

Others might argue that, in fact, mass murders are predictable “white swan” events, for example see http://theunpersons.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/white-swans-and-mass-shootings/ . Even so, although mass shootings as a general phenomenon are predictable and within the realm of our expectations, individual shootings are not. As an observer stated, Isla Vista is a “quiet college town.”

Nevertheless, speculations about Rodger’s mental state and propensities, notwithstanding, preparing for “black swan” events is much easier then predicting individual instances and emphasizes the need for strict control of hand guns, increased funding for mental health on all levels; mental health is just as important as physical health, it’s not a luxury; and perhaps more importantly, changing the way that we teach and bring up boys in this country. In a phrase, too much testosterone pandering and not enough self awareness and critical thinking skills.

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This is a rather whiny,self-indulgent bit of “journalism”. A lot of people injured and killed, and the author want’s us all to cry for poor her who happened to attend the same campus many, many years ago and was in no way involved with the tragedy.

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Misandry is a real problem, it’s just not a cultural problem. It is a personal problem, and you deal with it by getting help (if you’re the misandrist) or avoidance (if you’re the target).

Misogyny, on the other hand is both a personal problem and a cultural problem.

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I think it is just as plausible to blame the culture of “Carrie” and “Columbine” than to try to lay this culturally at the feet of “misogyny” and the “objectifying of women” as this article (and a few other attempts at the same argument published in the past 48 or so hours) try and do.

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This is full of BS. The “culture of sexism” is not to blame for this guy’s actions. Living through high school/college and watching other people have all the fun, all the sex, is extremely frustrating and that frustration has nothing to do with sexism. This kid had a lot of negative experiences trying to relate to girls. It isn’t that he’s objectifying women, he is sexually frustrated, and there’s a big difference. A gay kid in his situation might lash out at attractive guys his age for the same reasons.

And, by the way, he is not wrong to feel entitled to sex, and that has nothing to do with objectifying women either. Lots of gay people feel entitled to sex - is that sexism? Sex is universal. it is something everyone is entitled to whether they’re men or women, fat or thin, attractive or not. No one should be a virgin at age 22 unless that is your choice.

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Nice, you don’t believe in a problem, just live in your own little world where the word doesn’t exist. The link to a page nobody can read is just icing on the cake.

I’m glad someone gets it.

There’s a special word with which society labels guys like this. Creepy. Historically societies had roles for men rejected by women.

This guy certainly did hate women, but that’s not what caused him to snap. It’s also not what caused women to reject him. Social pressures did - the expectation of what it is to be normal, and the rejection of anyone who doesn’t fit that mold.

This article is disgusting, and self serving in the face of a tragedy.

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Dude was all imaginary-victim, “made to feel bad” by women who would have rejected him-- if he had had the balls to ask them out.

We now live in a world in which women don’t swoon for men who kill them rather than take their imaginary “no” for an answer. Is that an America you want for your children??

Seriously insecure, spoiled rotten, and well-armed…and chicks didn’t dig him…Bitches!

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Except he never talked to women, asked them out or otherwise interacted. So why take on face value an assumption regarding an attitude that may not have existed? I think the rage can just as easily be postulated as an explosion based on sublimated homoerotic feelings. I think a lot of people attracted to Men’s Rights nonsense don’t spend much time thinking of women in general, and then only as “the enemy” somehow. Which is a very strange attitude if one ever expects to be intimate with a woman. Which means such people are finding other ways to satisfy their urges.

I had to chuckle during the reading of the linked page-- regarding:

“There wouldn’t be much of an audience for a show based on a husband’s ability to belittle and control his wife.”

Norman Lear hit it big with the premise.
All In The Family should ring a bell.

I spent several years myself in the ‘bubble’ that was Rice U. in the early-80s. Objectification didn’t seem so much an issue among those with larger goals, both immediate and long-term. Regardless of gender, ethnicity, or sexuality-- there was a sense of equality among peers. A by-product of the environ.

Bubbles tend to reproduce what is allowed or promoted by its’ inhabitants.

jw1

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He wouldn’t talk to women, but hated them for rejecting him.

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I have no idea why you can’t read the google books page. Here’s what the quote says:

The accusation of man hating and male bashing also shifts attention away from women and onto men in a sympathetic way that reinforces patriarchal male centeredness while putting women on the defensive for criticizing it. In the process, it portrays men as victims of a gender prejudice that on the surface seems comparable to the sexism directed at women. Like many such false parallels, this ignores he fact that antifemale and antimale prejudices have different social bases and produce very different consequences. Resentment and hatred of women are grounded in a misogynist culture that devalues femaleness itself as part of male privilege and female opression. For women, however, mainstream patriarchal culture offers no comparable antimale ideology, and so their resentment is based more on experience as a subordinate group and men’s part in it.
From: The Gender Knot: Unraveling Our Patriarchal Legacy by Allan G. Johnson[quote=“Stradivarius50T3, post:9, topic:4499, full:true”]
Misandry is a real problem, it’s just not a cultural problem. It is a personal problem, and you deal with it by getting help (if you’re the misandrist) or avoidance (if you’re the target).

Misogyny, on the other hand is both a personal problem and a cultural problem.
[/quote]

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A madman’s rants about women, some of whom he ended up killing, prompts a woman’s essay about how this made her reflect on her college life where the killings took place and her approach to feminism then and now in her life. And what do we get for some comments? A discussion about hatred toward men and how self-serving, bullshit and disgusting it is for the author think any of this is about women or her.

Go right ahead, keep talking about how this horrible event has nothing to do with the culture of sexism and violence against women.

Go on telling the writer who has perspective both as a woman and an alumni of the college and town as being self-serving for expressing herself thoughts on these events, even as every person in the comments expresses their own thoughts on these events.

Or maybe go back and ask yourself if the dead were all black kids and the shooter a white guy who left behind a “I hate n*ggers” video, and this writer was a black man expressing this personal history and perspective on racist culture in his life, would you call it self-serving, disgusting bullshit? And talk about the hatred of white people?

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I know, what’s next? “Not all men…” so we talk about things men don’t do to women instead of what they do?