Discussion: The Rise And Spectacular Fall Of Anti-Vaccine 'Science'

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Discussion for article #232793

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Fucking Republicans. They’ll trot out the “I’m not a scientist” line in response to the established science of climate change, which 99% of climate scientists agree on, but then rely on a debunked, discredited scientist who has been ostracized from the scientific community to support their claims that vaccines cause autism. Fucking morons.

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I have been looking for a term to describe Rand Paul’s comments this week. Palinesque? Or, maybe Sarahly, (with apologies to the bakery company).

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The internet is the tower of Babel. We are daily bathed in a sea of misinformation. Learn to verify and validate, and never place belief before fact. The path to wisdom is littered with the cow-pies of the Devil’s own Herd. Tread carefully.

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Random has had long ties with a wingnut group that has advocated against vaccinations. Maddow touched on it last night.

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“Freedom” is never absolute. Justice Holmes established this fact many, many years ago. Why do today’s GOP/TP want to convince us otherwise? Because their definition of the word is “I can do anything I want, to hell with you!” Not quite “shouting ‘Fire’ in a crowded theater,” but seriously, not choosing to vaccinate your child has an impact on all of the rest of us. I for one would be happy to allow parents to “opt out” of having their children vaccinated, provided I have the right to “opt out” of having them in close proximity to MY children, spreading diseases which we thought we had eradicated. These anti-vaxxers really are the worst kind of ignorant folk, and Jenny McCarthy (and Rand Paul) can go straight to Hell.

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There is no ‘controversy’ . there are stupid people who for whatever reason choose to put their kids (and the kids of everyone else) at risk because they believe something that isn’t true (lots of choices - vaccines cause autism, organic food, a vegan diet, will protect against these diseases) and refuse to listen to reason. There has always been way too much stupid in human beings, but social media has allowed them to meet each other and reinforce the stupid exponentially. Vaccines save lives - get yourself and your kids vaccinated.

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Bachmann Furor Overdrive

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This isn’t the same as Climate Change denial. It is not the case that every vaccine is 100% effective with 0 risk, and I don’t think it is helpful to treat the subject this way.

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Fine! If you want to opt out, then you don’t go to public schools. You can pay for private schools or hire a tutor to home school your kids. If you are really wacko, you can home school them yourself with your Christian “fundamentalist” propaganda! Which most of the anti-vaccine crowd seem to be.

But please don’t think that you have the right to sit your contagious brat next to my healthy grandkid. And contrary to Jenny McCarthy, the carrier is MOST contagious BEFORE the disease really begins to manifest itself with signs that the layperson can diagnose as Mumps, Measles or Rubella. I don’t want my grandkids sterilized or brain damaged because you chose to send your brat to school with a potentially fatal disease. And, yes, STERILITY is one of the possible side effects of measles. Look it up in REPUTABLE medical journals, not some wingnut website with a whore doctor who has sold his opinion to the highest bidder and tailored his conclusions to what the “John” wants to hear.

Wingnut TP’iers/Rethuglicans forever scream about personal responsibility. The parents who protect their kids with a vaccine that is 98% effective are exercising personal responsibility. Then they have all the personal responsibility destroyed by idiots who scream PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and then act in the most IRRESPONSIBLE manner possible. Parents who don’t vaccinate their children are committing child abuse and should have their parental rights terminated! Blow that one out your anti-science stovepipe!!

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On one side of the “debate” we have the scientific community. On the other side, we have Jenny McCarthy, Rand Paul and Chris Christie. The choice of whom to believe is obvious to everyone. Sadly, what is obvious to me is the exact opposite of what is obvious to an anti-vaxxer.

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And your point is…?

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It is very similar to climate change denial. The vaccine-autism fear was based on Wakefield, et al., scientifically laughable, uncontrolled, and subjective paper of <12 “self-identified” children. Throw in the falsification of data, the conflicts of interest ($$), and the fact that Wakefield’s libel suits have all been thrown out of court, and Wakefield’s disbarment, and you have the originating paper as a total fabrication.

Wakefield’s coauthors and publisher have retracted the paper. Dozens of large-scale, controlled, studies have shown no association with the MMR vaccine or thimerosal with autism. In fact, autism rates increased after thimerosal was removed from the vaccine.

So, yes, the overwhelming majority of scientists agree to no link between the MMR vaccine and autism, just like climate change. Vaccine efficacy and limited side effects are well-known entities. Absolute anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCarthy and Republican “no-scientist” autism associations are the subject here.

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On one hand it was inevitable. The politicization of all fact is essential to the conservative elite mind control project. Permitting people to have an opinion about a fact that is not dictated by their ideology and fed to them by a right wing propaganda organ is a threat to that project, particularly to the extent that it could lead conservatives to find common ground with liberals based on a shared conception of objective reality and common good. A shared consensus on something like vaccines or whether it’s okay to coldcock your wife, things they simply don’t care about, could lead to a shared belief that CO2 is transparent to visible light but opaque to infrared or that income inequality is dangerous to democracy.

But, on the other hand, Jesus wept, are we really going to have to fucking have a divisive political fight over whether vaccination is mandatory? Really?

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I am neither anti-science, nor anti-vax.

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And such things are completely missing from these discussions.

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[quote=“Epicurus, post:6, topic:16280”] I for one would be happy to allow parents to “opt out” of having their children vaccinated, provided I have the right to “opt out” of having them in close proximity to MY children, spreading diseases which we thought we had eradicated. [/quote] Or use our 2nd Amendment rights to prevent their kids frrm infecting yours.

To borrow a line from John “McGrumpy” McCain:
“Build that damned fence and shoot anyone that comes near it.”

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[quote=“formerlywhatithink, post:2, topic:16280”] Fucking Republicans. [/quote] 'Nuf said.

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This really doesn’t do justice to the fraud that is Andrew Wakefield. Not only did he perform needless invasive and painful procedures on children, when those tests did not give the results he wanted he lied about them. He diagnosed kids with autism that did not have autism so his data would look better. From a parent of one of the study kids:

“If my son really is Patient 11, then the Lancet article is simply an outright fabrication,” said the father of the penultimate child in the series - admitted to the Royal Free, at age 5, from northern California and whose history was falsely reported in the paper.

You absolutely have to read the history of what Andrew Wakefield did. It goes beyond outright fraud and profiteering and includes child abuse and endangerment. And all of that has resulted in hundreds to thousands of child deaths. You really should read the whole story. Available here: http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm
It really is one of the most disgusting stories you can imagine. The man should be in prison for the rest of his life. Instead, he is in Texas continuing to mislead families who are at their most vulnerable.

Edit: This was not meant to be a reply to Storm, it was meant to be a comment in its own right, but I must have hit the wrong button. Apologies.

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[quote=“The_Scarlet_Pimpernel, post:10, topic:16280”] But please don’t think that you have the right to sit your contagious brat next to my healthy grandkid. [/quote] Include banning them from attending schools, churches, concerts, any public meetings, malls, bus & train stations, airports, banks, … just about anytime they leave their own property.

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