Discussion for article #230987
Poor Hillary. I wonder if sheâll attack and lie about hard working Democrats again like she did the last time this grassroots organization attempted to be a part of the democratic process?
âMoveon.org endorsed [Sen. Barack Obama] â which is like a gusher of money that never seems to slow down.We have been less successful in caucuses because it brings out the activist base of the Democratic Party. MoveOn didnât even want us to go into Afghanistan. I mean, thatâs what weâre dealing with. And you know they turn out in great numbers. And they are very driven by their view of our positions, and itâs primarily national security and foreign policy that drives them. I donât agree with them. They know I donât agree with them. So they flood into these caucuses and dominate them and really intimidate people who actually show up to support me.â
This was a true insult. I was at the 2008 Iowa caucuses. There was no intimidation and flood of MoveOn supporters. The sad truth is she just wasnât the same caliber speaker as Obama, just as she isnât in the same league with Elizabeth Warren.
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Hmm, love the idea. Liz and Bernie is a ticket I WOULD support. Two people who DO speak truth to power.
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Whoa! Liz and Bernie? Never happen! Iâd love to see it, but as long as we allow the deluded to vote, it never will. Hopefully, someday, we will realize that there should be additional requirements to vote, beyond coming out of the chute in the US.
I believe that passing a âcivics-typeâ test should be required of every would-be voter six months before the primary in each state. Yeah, I know, sounds âold Southâ and Jim Crow, but if you look at US education results and the number of viewers Fox has, you have to realize that the uninformed and the misinformed should be kept away from the ballot box!
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Iâm not sure how I feel about this. Warren is the stronger candidate for me, but I wonder if she, as a MA Liberal, could win the hard core Appalachean working whites to win the GE. I know Hillary can win them because of Bill, but not sure if Warren can beat Jeb with those deluded puppets voting âstupidâ at the ballot box. Bush III is a nightmare I do not wish upon the US, all armed with another right wing SCOTUS nominee.
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I have been forced to the conclusion that it is impossible for anyone from Massachusetts not named Adams or Kennedy to win a presidential election and both of those families have been out of the president-minting business for a long time.
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And letâs face it, despite the revisionist history that some are trying to build around Warrenâs senate campaignâŚit was hardly a cake walk for her.
I just donât see how struggling to get elected in the possibly the most liberal state in the Union = she will do awesome nationally in a general election.
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I lost my taste for left-wing primary insurgencies as a result of the 2004 Connecticut Senate primary. Itâs not that I wouldnât like to see the leftâs candidate win, because I always prefer the actual person they run (as I would with Warren), but, rather, the fact that the people behind the candidate never seem to have the first goddamn clue about what to do when they get to the general because fighting with Democrats is all they know how to do.
Not but what I donât think Hillary needs a hard primary run to stress test her campaign team, generate a team of outsiders who can provide new blood in the general and, above all, test her to see if sheâs learned from her mistakes and gotten over the stuff that infuriated me about her in 2008âstarting with her penchant for surrounding herself with long-time loyalists who put her in a feedback bubble while simultaneously backstabbing each other.
And, so help me God, if Lanny Davis has any role in her campaign whatsoever, whether official or unofficial, Iâm out. I fully expect him to pretend he does, because pretending he has the ear of powerful people is how the loathsome shitstain makes his obscenely lucrative living. But if itâs in any way real, Iâm onboard with whoeverâs in the primary against her. Itâs the Lanny Davis Litmus Test.
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This is nothing more than an effort to spice up the âcontestâ for the 2016 preznit nomination. Yes 2016 appears all but assured of being the Year Of The First Woman President juggernaut, and yes her Hillariness lost in 2008 due to massive hubris and unprofessionalism in her campaign, but she lost to the single best campaign not just of any relatively unknown supposed âoutsiderâ but arguably of any presidential candidate in the nationâs history, one that was, as it needed to be, aimed quite a bit more at her candidacy than to any POS the GOP might try to peddle out of desperation given the performance of its most recent president.
And Obamaâs campaign was fully gamed out, prepped and massively funded almost 3 years in advance of the 2008 election. In contrast, Senator Warren has NO (zero bupkis nada) presidential campaign team behind her, with too little time left to assemble one that could overtake Hillary Clintonâs, and is saddled with a (wonderful sure but) unmistakably progressive liberal candidate in a time where the nationâs voters are consumed with debating exactly how much inequality and police authoritarianism and generally antedeluvian nutsiness theyâre prepared to tolerate.
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Nope: thatâd be Vermont, and itâs not remotely close.
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Jesus please, Iâm all set up here sipping a coffee! Lanny Davis, the face that says âpunch meâ. And that smile also. Watch him try and trip Bob Shrum on the way to the Hillary Senior Advisor Inner Circle. That possibility may be the final clusterfuck for me.
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How is an 8 point win over an incumbent a struggle?
Hillary ran in New York, a very liberal state. Her first election was by the same margin for an open seat against a flawed candidate (Lazio).
@NCSteve: GHW Bush was born in Milton MA.
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Itâs a bit of a chicken and egg conundrum. Progressives, (speaking very generally here), donât have the experienced campaign teams that the more centrists Democrats have access to. If progressives could win a few major campaigns, that tide would start to shift. But right now, their electoral nemesis IS other Democrats. So until they get over that battle a few times, they will be more geared for campaigning against other Democrats.
To me, and this was writ large in the Gore campaign, what we really need to see in a centrist candidate that is willing to adopt some Progressive language and planks in order to win over the left. If Gore had made just a few concessions to the Progressives, Nader wouldnât even be a historical footnote. But by and large, centrists absolutely refuse to ever budge an inch for Progressive issues.
I am of two minds currently.On the one hand, I would love to see Warren make a run and seriously push Hilary. On the other hand, I am less than convinced that she is the sort of uber candidate that some people think she is, so I think she would do horribly in a general, and quite frankly, I have reservations that she could even mount a serious campaign to unseat Hilary as the pre ordained winner.
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Please PLEASE let Warren run. The GOP could run Warren Harding and beat her.
âThis is not an anti-Hillary message; itâs a pro-democracy one.â
Exactly. We need a competition, not a coronation.
Somebody better be pulling Ms. Clinton to the left, or nobody who is really a Democrat will be happy with the outcome.
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Hillary lies!! Get outta here!! LOL
I know, maybe we could have special classes in school that you had to pass before you could graduate.
Call it something like âCivicsâ.
Yeah, thatâs the ticketâŚ
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An 8 point lead that only opened up in the final week(s). In Massachusetts, for what was essentially Kennedyâs seat. Sure, she won, which makes her a better candidate than Coakley, but I think we can all agree that is not much of a bar to get over.
But go beyond just the numbers and review the actual campaign. She struggled mightily with Brown throughout. And if a political light weight like Brown can give her troubles, what do you think a nationally funded and run republican campaign will do to her?
And again, at the risk of sounding like a scratched record, this was in MassachusettsâŚperhaps the most favorable home field advantage any liberal can have. 8 points in MA doesnât equate to 8 points in Illinois. Or Ohio. Or any of what will be battle ground states. (Remember, we should be having a few more states getting purplish this time around. Purple is not deep blue.)
I will also toss this tidbit out there, though its pure conjecture at this point. Hilary is going to do EVERYTHING in her power to ensure that Warren does not toss her hat into the ring. Because campaigning hard and ugly (and the Clintons WILL get uglyâŚwe know this historically) against another woman is the antithesis of where I think Hilary wants to take her campaign. She is going to play the gender card very hard this time around. Powerpuff Girls on steriods type of thing. And getting into a mud wrestling primary with another woman doesnât really help that narrative.
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I donât know about that Dawn. Those white folks who voted for Bill arenât around anymore.
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Bernie Sanders has no chance of winning - except his seat in Vermont. That would not be a good ticket under any circumstances. It might be a progressiveâs wet dream, but thatâa about it.
I still think Warren would could win a presidency. She has the right message and knows how to communicate, They said Obama didnât have a chance either
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