Discussion for article #235166
^^ Why I get mad when people say they hate lawyers. Theyâre not all bad, thatâs for damn sure.
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On March 1, 2006, during a Maryland State Senate hearing regarding same-sex marriage, Prof. Jamie Raskin, speaking as a constitutional law expert and an avid proponent for marriage equality, told the lawmakers: âPeople place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution; they donât put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible.â
That always makes me want to stand up and applaud!
https://oisc.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/gay-marriage-meme.jpg
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Can anyone name the justices in the illustration? Seems to have a lot seat fillers today.
And I donât see marriage equality wining 5-4 - I see it winning 6-3, just as Lawrence did.
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Breyer, Thomas, Kennedy, Stevens, Roberts, Scalia, Souter, Ginsburg, Alito
[that isnât the subject of the article giving the oral argument either ⌠he has argued a lot of cases but apparently not that one / stock photo]
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I can see that and as like Lawrence the sixth vote will be on somewhat different grounds.
ETA: Also, as to the article, I would also flag Mary Bonauto as key to same sex marriage equality (she also is one of the two who will argue the cases next week). Basically, Lawrence v. Texas made SSM being protected along with other types of marriage just a matter of time. Once same sex couples had the same liberty rights in the area of intimate association generally, there is no good reason to draw the line at marriage. It was just a matter of being ready to make it official.
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I am dismayed that there is no mention of Mary Bonauto, the lawyer who argued the Goodrich case in Massachusetts, which made same-sex marriage legal for the first time. She not only did a fine job in arguing, but earlier she found a group of plaintiffs whose life stories would appeal of the justices of the Supreme Judicial Court. Mary will be arguing one of the cases next week. She much deserves to be recognized as the pioneer she is.
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I donât think the Bible has anything to say about same-sex marriage, just the occasional reference to same-gender sex by men (nothing about women; shades of the modern fetish for lesbian porn).
The Bible does say that having concubines and multiple wives is a-ok. And killing your enemies and forcing their wives and daughters into marriage/slavery is ok too. As is selling your daughter into slavery. Or giving your daughters to a mob to be raped. Also Jesus says multiple times that divorce is the same as adultery. (Tell me again why anyone looks to the Bible for moral guidance?)
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The parts of the Bible that still hold up have some general things to say that can apply to marriage in general. The Bible has a few things to say about gender roles, some antiquated, but like various things, they donât hold up well.
So 2006 or so. After OâConnor retired. Thanks.
I think thatâs correct. Iâm well aware of the litany of biblical stories that make the bible a container of some of the most pornographic material in history (*And obviously the word âpornographyâ is endlessly open to debate as well since itâs etymological and legal histories and definitions diverge quickly and radically.). And the debates over what the bible implies or states outright about marriage in general are endless and, at the last, little more than an exercise in futility. That book of folktale, allegory and mythology is so open to interpretations of every sort to fit easily the ideas of the reader the idea of inflicting its content into political debate, as Republicans and TEAlibangelicals are often eager to do, is insulting and dangerous. In the end, that antique collection of tales, myths and patriarchal (and tyrannical) narratives has nothing to do with the governance of this democratic republic, and we have to make sure that powerful theocratic presences and impulses in our political structure are countered at every step.
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Existentially, xtianists and âistsâ in general are terrified and are so because their irrationality is not only fast being rejected it is based on lies. Isnât it fear that motivates fundamentalism and creates cults of intolerance and death? What isnât realized is that this contributes in an enormous way to the subjectivity that ultimately becomes evil and blasphemy against humanity. What is believed is a dogma that is not at all real for anyone. Respect for others has long ago been lost among these creatures of darkness and they have lost the fight against their own concupiscence (blind lust for Jesus or some such) causing evil reactions against their own kind only to prolong their own suffering and that of others. Fuck, weâre in deep doo doo. While all may be mind, we would do well to follow Socratesâ sage advice to not believe we know what we do not know.
The parts of the Bible that say anything about homosexuality are the OT, which is allegorical/historical and superseded theologically by the NT, and Paul who is not theologically equivalent to Jesus. The Gospels which, theologically, are the inerrant teachings of Christ, donât say anything about homosexuality. But they say a lot of things about forcing beliefs on others, about praying in public, etc. So, there is not Christian scriptural basis for almost anything the xtianist Right insists is scriptural.
And yes, there are some remnants of a first century patriarchal attitude in the Gospels, but it isnât defended or stated as a religiously required condition, just an acknowledgement of the conditions at the time. All in all, the Gospels are a truly positive description of how people are supposed to treat each other in a world where not everyone believes the same. Too bad most xtianists havenât actually read them.
The fact the Scalia might have seen this coming doesnât make it wrong. Of course he saw it as a problem, but most of the rest of us donât see it that way. It took a series of decisions, spread over years, to finally reach the point where Blacks were considered legal equals, but it was obvious we would eventually get there. Clearly recent events have shown we havenât really completed that battle even if the law of the land has eliminated legal discrimination involving race.
This ruling will not provide equal rights for the LGBTQ community. Society will continue to struggle with the issue, but the law of the land will finally approach equality. Thatâs a good thing. Finally.