Discussion for article #242970
I’m thinking this is indicative of the Christian Institutions contradicting what the Bible teaches ironically in the same way radical Islam contradicts the Koran. Go figure…
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Actually, devout and “traditional” Jewish and Christian beliefs are at odds with contemporary American values.
Safety and economic opportunity aside, I don’t understand why devout Muslims would want to live in our democratic, open, highly sexualized, sports obsessed, drug using, pop culture fixated society as Islam is very much at odds with what America is today.
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One the one hand I do not think that Islam believes in the Separation of Church and State, on the other the GOP?
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Ah, you’ve obviously never read the Bible NOR the Koran. The Westboro Baptist Church and Ken Ham have a better understanding of the Bible than most Christians. If you think that the Bible is full of some hippy bullshit about being kind to one another, and love and all that shit, you DEFINITELY HAVEN’T READ IT!!!
Same with the Koran. Read that shit.
Seriously. Read that shit. The entire thing is about how fucked up the Jews and Christians are.
During the Paris attacks last week, some Muslim tweeted this passage about how the Koran says, “If you kill one person, it is as if you have killed all of humanity.” Trying to show that the Koran is about loving one another and shit. And it sounds nice, doesn’t it? Very anti-violenc-y, right?
In context: Koran 5:32: “Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.”
So in context it’s: We told those dirty Hebrews that killing was bad (unless the fucker had it coming, of course) but those evil bastards do it anyway.
Later on in that same passage, it says Koran 5:51: “O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.”
And it goes on and on and on.
Seriously. Read that shit.
Read the Bible too. Not just the parts the preacher picks out to prove some point. Put that shit in context.
Both just horrible, horrible books. (I mean, from a moral standpoint, of course. In terms of just literature: excellent.)
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Also seems like that what you hear in the news is about Islamic groups doing is all bad vs christian groups only doing good.
You hear all the time about christian soup kitchens, homeless shelters, charity fund raisers for the needy etc. Only thing you hear about muslims doing is terrorist attacks, most of which occur outside the US.
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Pretty much all religions have at least some tenets that are at odds with American values as proclaimed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I’m glad I have never been caught in their web and as a result have been able to think for myself all these years.
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It would be interesting to see how the de facto Hezbollah government of Southern Lebanon treats non-Hezbollah residents, if there are any in the area they administer.
The caliphate that ISIL imagines is quite different than the Ottoman Caliphate at its height or the various Khanates - as long as you “render unto Caesar” you were mostly left alone and allowed to maintain your religion and culture.
The other interesting perspective is whether there is a thing as a “secular Muslim” as one is allowed to be a “secular Jew,” which begs the obvious thorny question as to whether if one is non-observant, are you a Jew? Afterall, they are a Semitic people no different than the rest of the tribes that comprised the Levant “in the Beginning” but came up with a different religion in a region that was for roughly 2,000 years after the founding of Judaism animistic and pagan until the rise of Christianity and later Islam.
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I would venture a guess that most American are almost completely uninformed (or misinformed) about the tenets of Islam and are therefore unqualified to render a judgement of any kind on the matter. I know I am. And I am probably more engaged than most.
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Next do “The values of Republicans are at odds with American values and way of life.”
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I prefer to imagine no religion!
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What a ridiculous poll question. Jesus Christ’s very clear instructions to turn the other cheek, for instance, were universally regarded as a deeply unhelpful suggestion, and public opinion hasn’t swayed much over the millenia. So Christianity must be at odds with American values too, right? Well of course not!
Well, to be fair, most all religions are not in line with my values.
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May I recommend the Thomas Jefferson Bible? Jefferson took all of Jesus’ sayings and arranged them a bit differently. The result is the reason that Jefferson believed Jesus was one of the great ethics and moral teachers in history. There are Christian churches who only teach the first four books of the New Testament and believe all of the Old Testament was completely overturned by Jesus and who reject any further additions to the New Testament as irrelevant.
I have read the Koran. In addition to what you wrote, it is certainly specific on destroying anyone worshipping idols or animals which was certainly done during that time. These folk either were forcibly converted or they were exterminated. On a somewhat better note, the property of women was a bit ahead of its time in spite of head to toe coverings their property remained their own and upon divorce was returned to them. That stands in contrast to Western civilizations that were very slow to move in that direction.
Good and bad exist in both…and in all religions. It’s the nature of religion…but it does make it hard to determine one’s own ethics. It becomes much easier to fall back on “faith” in a particular and familiar religion.
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Organized religion in general is “at odds” with MY values. That doesn’t mean that I want to make people stop worshipping or to close America’s border to the believers.
Too bad the survey didn’t ask about specific values. Most Middle Eastern Muslim don’t believe in abortion, equal rights for women, theory of evolution, or gay marriage. I think a lot of those white evangelical Protestants would agree with the Muslims on those issues.
Well, maybe so, but I feel that Christianity is inconsistent with my values as well as Islam. I’m an atheist and a rational humanist. That doesn’t make me Islamophobic, it’s just that all religions are inconsistent with my values.