Discussion for article #236340
Since NAFTA went into effect, the US population has increased by 18%, and the number of US private sector jobs has increased by 23%.
Some will complain that these jobs don’t include as many well-paying manufacturing jobs. Its true, many of these jobs are gone. And they aren’t coming back. Sure, some have been outsourced overseas, but many of these jobs have been made obsolete by technology.
Lets face it, the days of getting only a HS diploma (or not) and going to work with dad on the assembly line making $25-30 an hour (full benefits) are over. You are competing against the world, and there really isn’t any turning back.
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Amen and hallelujah And might I add while I think this President is extremely handsome, for TPM use stock photos to try to match with the story, I find it really silly
I take it you’ve never studied statistics.
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They had to build the new-tech factories somewhere. They could have built them here and preserved (some of) the middle class, but they chose to move manufacturing to China, or Vietnam. Having learned which of our laws “inconvenienced” their commerce, they designed a treaty to erase those laws.
Does anyone else remember the movie Rollerball?
Whatever you want chammy. We know, it’s all about you and Barrack. I just hope he acts like an adult this time. You know, doesn’t get all emotional when women demand answers. This time he can’t just say “bunk”. Some serious lawyer talk coming our way.
I would hate to tell you this, but those products that are now being produced in China, Vietnam, India and elsewhere end up saving the American consumers a ton of money.
I’m not acting like there isn’t a tradeoff. There are definitely winners and losers with all trade deals. But the American consumers and up having more money in their pockets because a pack of paper cups costs $3 instead of $6. When consumers have more money in their pockets, they consume. When they consume, it helps US jobs.
But also important: Asia consumes. And they will be consuming more than anyone in the years to come. I’d prefer our manufactures be able to sell their stuff in Asia without tarrifs, as opposed to the 20-50% they’re seeing now.
So the Democrats were just posturing, not playing to win.
An elaborate Kabuki to entertain the masses.
Bread and Circuses.
Did you enjoy the show? It’s what you get instead of a job.
Nixon’s revenge.
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This is what I call “the big lie.” Not that you’re lying, it’s not your fault. The people lining their pockets told you this fairy tale, and you were trusting enough to believe them.
The Waltons didn’t get stinking rich by selling cups they could have sold for $3 because they’re made with near-slave labor. They got rich by selling them at $6 and pocketing the difference. They might sell them for $4.50 until they drive all the competition out of business in a geographic area, but then it’s back up to $6. There are no bargains at WalMart.
Apple didn’t become one of the wealthiest corporations in the universe by exercising noblesse oblige and passing on the money they save by manufacturing at a facility where dormitory-housed workers are so abused they have to install safety nets on the buildings to prevent suicides. They sell a measly adapter that might cost them a dollar to make for $35.00, because people need to have it if they buy their products.
Finally, I find it somewhat amusing that you’d believe that consumers have more money in their pockets therefore they’ll buy more cheap products all of which are made overseas, particularly in light of the worries of economists that our demand-driven economy is in peril specifically because the buying power of the consumers has been gutted as those you attribute with noblesse oblige continue to drive down wages and benefits.
The goods Asian workers can by and large afford amount to genetically-modified crops and hormone-laden meat products. And, of course, it’s about selling our pharmaceuticals to them too. And now that we’re among the world’s leading exporters of fossil fuels, we’ll sell them coal and natural gas and oil too…stuff that should stay in the ground if we care about our future on this planet.
But the idea that the Japanese have all this pent-up demand and will all of a sudden flock to buy our cars is preposterous, and for Obama to posit that demonstrates to me his willingness to take advantage of the lack of understanding of Japanese culture that typifies the American xenophobe. The Japanese don’t want our cars, for cultural reasons.
So when you tout “our manufacturers” I’d really like to know which manufacturers you’re talking about who employ US workers that stand to gain by exports that would actually materialize under this sham of a deal. Even Obama allowed as how those manufacturing jobs are already gone. We don’t make a goddamned thing anymore, precisely because of the bill of goods they’ve sold you that these deals are good for us.
In case you missed it, our trade deficit is at record levels, and selling non-value-added commodities like GMO corn and antibiotic-addled beef and tar sands oil won’t fill the gap. We need trade policy that will bring value-added jobs back into the US, not accelerate their demise and exacerbate the trade deficit.
Capitalism is about profits. There’s nothing wrong with that, however, we must accept reality and plan accordingly, not repeat to ourselves the nonsense they’re peddling to justify their practices and turn a blind eye to the inevitability foretold by invariant history in these matters. This is a deal of, by, and for the 600 tycoons writing it, not you and me.
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I love you. 
What are American consumers supposed to buy those cheap products with if their income is gone? It doesn’t matter that the pack of paper cups costs $3 if your wallet is empty. I’d rather have some money to spend and pay a little more.
Nothing about this deal is intended to help workers OR consumers in this country. It’s about establishing a rate for labor that pits us against 60-cent per hour workers in Asia.
And who cares if Asia consumes? We’re not manufacturing anything, we’re doing one anothers’ laundry. Let them buy all the Nike products they can afford. We won’t see a dime of that here in the U.S.
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