There was similar support for the ideas that became the ACA in 2008 until we started doing it and they found out they had to eat spinach before they got their ice cream. And there will be a shit ton of nasty tasting canned spinach that gets open once the slogan “single payer” goes from symbol to legislation.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s definite progress that the numbers are better. No question. But don’t trust it. It only means that when that number collapses below 50 under the weight of reality, it lands on a higher floor. And that floor was raised by the passage of the ACA.
Schumer’s strategy is right, it’s just that his message/delivery is sleep inducing. As much as I would prefer a better message his message keeps the focus on the Republicans.
And that’s the problem. It’s a problem because, leaving aside the fact that you’re deciding it’s okay to blow up other people’s lives as long as you don’t know them, you don’t seem to grasp that there are macroeconomic consequences to blowing up all of those lives that are potentially bad enough to undo everything you think you’re accomplishing. It’s a problem because you don’t seem to grasp that blowing up the lives of everyone who works in the insurance industry, and the towns they work in, has enormous political consequences can likewise undo everything you think you’re accomplishing.
And yeah, it’s a problem because you seem to think that all the people who do the work of processing claims, writing the checks, managing the accounting, negotiating with providers, sweeping the floors, providing IT support are all so morally compromised by their affiliation with private insurers that they deserve to be impoverished, as do all the people who are downstream from them.
And here’s the other problem. Single payer isn’t the norm in most countries. Universal coverage is, but single payer isn’t and it isn’t the only way, or possibly even the best way to get there. Some countries, like Britain, have full on socialization. Some, like France have ended up at something really close to single payer though they started with managed competition. Some like German and Switzerland do have a managed competition model, sometimes with quasi public insurers kind of like, say, Freddie Mac.
And the thing is, everyone has always known, all along, that once you start down the road of something like Obamacare, you eventually end up at universal coverage and something a lot like one of those systems. Republicans realize it and screamed to the heavens and continue trying to figure out ways of killing it without committing political suicide. Insurers knew it–it’s why the fought so hard to kill the public option. Democrats knew it though keeping quiet about it was integral to getting there.
The only people who didn’t seem to grasp it were the people on the left who wanted magic wands waved and a sixth of the gross national product completely reorganized overnight, disruption and dislocation be damned. And that blindness has done more to set back their cause than anyone other than John Roberts and Joe Lieberman.
I’d love to see single payer. But I’m happier with the ACA than I was before it existed, and with a few tweaks it will be even more comprehensive. The Massachusetts version works quite well. In my case, it’s fairly limited, but I’m delighted to be able to cover my kid (22 years old, recent college grad) until his employer policy kicks in.
Right wingers have been working seriously towards today for something like 40 years, tirelessly going at local government positions, taking over state houses, redistricting themselves into unassailable strongholds. One is almost tempted to say: now THAT is ‘progressive’, at least from the standpoint of working to promote an agenda.
Hey, I did say Lieberman and Roberts’ damage were worse. And a lot worse. But jesus wept, all the bitching and pissing and moaning from the PCC/Firebagger/Hamsherite types in the run-up to the 2010 midterms, rather than even qualified support, wasn’t helpful. Really, really wasn’t.
There’s only one problem: there’s an enormous difference between, “Yeah, I think the government should be responsible for ensuring health care coverage,” and, “Holy shit! It’s going to cost that much to set up a single-payer system? And it’s going to have ‘death panels’? And my Aunt Millie will never be able to get a hip replacement? And my taxes will have to go up by that much? Blah, blah, blah.”
And, as noted above, universal coverage is not the same thing as single payer.
That’s something that Bernie never understood. And it’s something that people here have been trying to tell George for a hell of along time now. He will never grasp it. He wants the unicorn and he wants it now, dammit! And he is absolutely certain that the Democratic Party’s failure to campaign on “Unicorns for everyone!” is the sole reason that they are not in control of Congress and the Presidency, despite having no data to support such a belief.
I just want to make it clear that I think George and the other commenters who dwell to the left of the comment section’s ideological mean serve a valuable role here.
I’m glad TPM closed the floodgate to the idiot Paulertoolian and Drudge swarmers and cracked down on the Russian trolls. But I’ve always worried about the danger that doing that could turn this place into an echo chamber and mutual admiration and agreement society. And I can’t honestly say I’ve seen absolutely no tendency in that direction.
Our beliefs need to be challenged. We need to be forced to defend them, articulate them, take them out to the logical conclusions. Because I have certainly found that being forced to do so has, on occasion, left me in a place I cannot defend or reason my way out of, and those occasions have been informative and helpful to me. And god knows you’re not going to get that kind of challenge from the mock-worthy right wing trolls who used to come here in less regulated days (and the handful who still do from time to time. Though I always suspect that whatever arguments they put out there, the right wingers come here because, at some level, they feel a need to reconnect to objective reality.)
I do recognize that there will be economic pain with a switch from for-profit insurance companies to Universal Healthcare. There will be jobs lost in the private sector and jobs gained in the public sector. We can plan for that. There will be enormous benefits, too, if healthcare costs go down for businesses and become less of a strain on the economy. It will free up capital for other investments and new jobs.
I understand that their are real economic consequences to going from private to public, but private insurance only has been a deadly disaster for millions of people all in the name of insurance company profit. We can’t continue it just for profit’s sake.
Just as we can’t keep mining and burning coal at the expense of our environment, we can’t keep for-profit insurance companies going at the expense of denying people healthcare. I don’t think that you’re arguing for that, either. We can and should have re-training programs and work to soften the blow to insurance workers.
What we have now still isn’t working, even though it is better than what was before.
We will not have universal healthcare in any form unless we start demanding it now. We need to educate the low information voters about it, and education takes time. We need to start now, otherwise it will never happen.
Look how quickly Gay Marriage has been accepted. The LGBTQ community did not shut-up when they were told “the country isn’t ready.” They kept fighting despite set-backs. “Civil Unions” weren’t good enough. We can’t shut up either.
I respect people who disagree with me, but not those who seem to take pride in ridiculing those of us who think that universal healthcare is some kind of “unicorn” or is a “purist” position. Even with Obamacare, there are hundreds of people dying in this country everyday due to lack of healthcare. These are actual human beings dying - including children.
In the richest country in the world, this is a humanitarian tragedy and those of us calling for an end to it don’t deserved to be ridiculed for pointing this out.
I pointed out to you that polling shows that there is strong public support for universal healthcare. We need Democratic Party leaders that can lead, educate, and debate, and not be afraid of what Republicans are going to say or do.
The facts are on our side.
Let’s have the fight with the Republicans about universal healthcare. I think we can win it, if not now then eventually. But we don’t have a chance unless we start trying to lead, educate, and debate now.
I guess that you’re one of the lucky ones who has an affordable healthcare plan. I guess that affords you the position to ridicule those of us who think it is wrong that 27 million are still without health insurance under the ACA. Universal healthcare isn’t about “unicorns” or “purity” or “Bernie” whatever ridiculousness you want to reduce it to. It is about life and death for millions of people.
The telling thing here is, most of the people reading this probably agree that universal healthcare is the best way to go, but most of the people reading this are scared of the prospect of the Democrats adopting this view, and promoting it. Most of the Democrats are probably scared of that, too.
The activist wing of the party is where the passion is. This passion is frightening to those who think playing the usual calculated, manipulating political game is the way to go. But without this passion, the best that can be hoped for is the status quo. That’s fine for those benefiting from the status quo, including probably most of the people reading this.
When Charles Schumer releases anything for public consumption, you can bet your life he’s got it calculated down to the last semi-colon. He adheres to Rudy Giuliani’s philosophy that you don’t get to the top by making bold decisions; you get to the top by avoiding making mistakes.
Schumer is indebted up to his eyeballs to the wealthy and powerful, as is every other Democrat leader. Acting with passion will upset the careful, calculated balance he has struck to achieve his position.
That’s why Schumer won’t say anything but the SOS as he has here. He has too much to lose by taking bold action on behalf of those who have little left to lose, and so much to gain.
As such, he doesn’t deserve the respect, or the acquiescence, of any of us.
