Discussion for article #244630
Food fight!
It would be nice if Bernie and Hillary could have a public discussion of the matter. You know, like oh, a debate or something? Where each of them could have time to present their proposal, and then some time for rebuttal and then final arguments from each.
You could televise this on something like CSPAN or another cable outlet. If you put it on in primetime, I’ll bet people would watch!
Unfortunately, we’re going to get more of the same tired old joint press conferences falsely advertised as debates. And they’ll be aired at times no-one is watching. Have they announced where the debate during 50Superbowl50 is going to be held?
Bernie Sanders comes across as a thin-skinned whiner. He hasn’t really explained how he would manage the clearly messy transition from our current system to single payer, so Hillary is filling in the gaps for him. It’s a perfectly legitimate criticism. Bernie Sanders’ weakness as a candidate is that he is not concerned with policy detail or explaining the costs or process of implementing his revolutionary change. He doesn’t seem to like the scrutiny and he is going to be getting a lot of it in these last few weeks before IA and NH.
You feelin’ the Bern khyber?
And we all know how HRC comes across to most Americans. I won’t bother to mention it because it’s insulting to her (and you already know).
Democrats stop bickering! Too much is at stake.
I think this attack on Bernie and on single payer is going to backfire on Hillary, if it isn’t already.
Dinging him for not releasing a full tax plan, including his proposed revenue plan for funding single-payer is perfectly fair. Dinging him on the gun manufacturer liability issue is fair. Questioning the political feasibility of his whole ambitious agenda is a perfectly fair criticism.
But to claim Bernie would “strip millions and milions of people of their health insurance” is blatantly, knowingly, corrosively dishonest. And as such, it is exactly the kind of thing that feeds into the “honesty” problem that polls consistently show she continues to have, even among many Democrats.
I think Bernie is right, Hillary’s attack is Rovian and does come across as bordering on desperation. Hillary and her team must be well aware that this kind of scurrilous attack could cost them the votes of some Bernie supporters in the general, so it’s a risk that would make absolutely no sense to take if she wasn’t getting quite worried about the direction of the polls in the primary.
Meanwhile, if she has to reach this far into the realm of fantasy to come up with an attack – and even then, this is the best she can come up with – it seems pretty clear she’s having some trouble coming up with an effective line of attack.
[Edit: By the way, it’s probably to Bernie’s benefit to get practice parrying bogus attacks, since if he somehow pulls off a historic upset and becomes the nominee, this is exactly the kind of dishonesty he can expect from the Republicans, only they will be a lot less polite.]
I chalk this kerfuffle up to the horse race elements in campaigns that talking heads thrive on and that are in play currently and the over reliance of polls as an indicator of what’s finally going to happen. He will win NH and she will win IA and the Democratic nomination. If Bernie’s supporters don’t get behind her on November 9 they will suffer for it and make others of us suffer as well.
A campaign like Bernie’s brings new people into the political process. Hillary will have to earn those votes, not just expect them.
He hasn’t really explained how he would manage the clearly messy transition from our current system to single payer, so Hillary is filling in the gaps for him. It’s a perfectly legitimate criticism.
Half right. Perfectly legitimate to point out gaps. Totally dishonest to make up ridiculous stuff to fill in those gaps and pretend what you made up is real.
Pointing out when your opponent is blatantly lying is not being “thin-skinned.” It’s refusing to be a pushover, which is what Hillary’s campaign seems to have mistaken Bernie for. Add this to the growing list of ways Bernie has been underestimated.
You’re always persuasive but please don’'t blame progressives for all the future suffering we may inflict upon “others” if we don’t get behind Hillary come November. Already she has her hedge fund daughter trashing Bernie saying he wants to take health care away from children.
She’s the smartest female politician we’ve ever seen, that alone should earn her some votes.
@Darcy
It’s campaign season rhetoric, a little fevered and a little hyperbolic and quite often involving family members. But wouldn’t you agree that if some Democratic voters don’t vote out of a fit of pique, it would be damaging to our party’s chance to win the WH and possibly take back the Senate?
Fair, Yes. Pretty rich considering the source, also yes.
As fair as calling out HRCs (or Obama’s) old stances on Same sex marriage… As in out of date.
Again, pretty rich considering the universal decades long loathing of anything Clinton. As with Obama, McConnell will ignore his oath of office and make it his “Number 1 priority” to make HRC a 1 term president, but more likely try to have indicted or impeached day one.
States rights? Why state by state? Frankly, living in Nebraska, I wouldn’t want my governor on this issue. How about the people in Kansas? Other crazy red states in the hands of extremestists? Let’s get real.
Yes, single payor but this must be in the hands of the federal govt.
Sure, responsible left-leaning voters should vote for Clinton if she’s the nominee. However, there is a strategic responsibility on Clinton’s shoulders as well. If she turns off the people that Bernie is bringing into the party/process, then she is damaging the party and her own chances in the general. It’s a two-way street.
And no, being smart and a woman is not enough.
it certainly will earn her votes…
that does not mean she is the best choice for the party or country.
I agree that she is the most qualified Female to have gotten this close to the presidency, but do not give her points on account of her genitals when otherwise all things are not equal IMHO.
It is long past time to have a woman president. I just don’t think she represents the current party as much as a presidential candidate should.
edit: as for those potentially sitting out, like with the PUMA business in 08, I don’t see that as reality once you stand either Bernie or Hillary next to the Repub nominee. Statement to the effect. of sitting out are blowing off steam and not worth trying to use those statements to tar a feather all supporters of either candidate. Anyone saying either camp is worse in this regard has to check their cognitive dissonance…
What’s with these old guy politician?
The older they get the more whinny they are!
CNN tells me the cost of Bernie’s medicare for all is 15 trillion. I think it’s reasonable to ask how it will be paid for and how it will be brought on line. I like my medicare but I also need a supplemental policy to fill in the gaps. Hillary is raising legitimate questions. Bernie can’t just wave a magic wand and make it happen.
“She’s the smartest female politician we’ve ever seen, that alone should earn her some votes.”
Hear this all the time but I think Nancy Pelosi (and others) could run circles around her. And she wouldn’t go right to ugly to do it. Clinton is in many ways a role model for women but let’s not forget she started with the biggest possible advantage.
It wasn’t hyperbole what Chelsea said the yesterday in NH and Karen Finney said about and hour ago about Bernie wanting to “scrap” the ACA. This is the kind of shit that will turn voters off come Nov 9th if the HRC campaign does what ever is necessary to win.