I’m voting for a Trump rescue package in the near future. He will use the steel analogy (not that he knows what an analogy is) and say a country can’t survive without gun manufacturers so they need to be rescued.
So much for Rethug market ideology.
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Similarly, making your own meth and bombs at home and testing how well they perform also falls under the purview of ‘science’ and will thus be encouraged by law enforcement.
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I believe is more like the market is saturated, after all guns last forever, and manufacturers got used to the Obama era buying sprees and now have a cost structure that includes million-dollar a year executives and lobbyists. Add the NRA contributions. Imagine how bad thing would be if they had to buy liability insurance.
I have been telling the gun fans that I know for years that a business model of selling more and more guns to fewer people was stupid. All of the fear mongering of the NRA has accelerated that trend. Any idiot could see that, which says all you need to know about the current NRA.
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Great, then by your own admission, the only guns that should be legally allowed are collectors items, shotguns and bolt-action rifles. I think a lot of people could easily get behind a ban on assault-rifles, sub-machine guns, hand-guns and over-sized magazines. That sounds like exactly what an responsible citizen would demand in this day and age. Or was there something else on your agenda?
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Gun nuts are frightened that their creatures in Congress might actually lose this November because of their support.
Good job arms manufacturers! Your toxic advocates in the NRA have destroyed almost the entirety of your future market. Enjoy the company of cigarette makers–you’ve earned it.
Considering how the NRA is supposed to be the manufacturers’ lobbying group they’re clearly doing a terrible job of it. The NRA is actually pretty weak because they’re not bipartisan anymore. Flip Congress and the chances of them going under increase.
yup, shortsightedness, as HRC would have been used in the same manner as BHO, to sell fear, and guns
stoopid NRA signed its own death warrant
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The Dirty Little Secrets of Gun Nuts are:
- Despite what they say, they’re pretty careless
- They are really bad shots. That’s why they want larger magazines. They NEED all those bullets to hit anything.
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Science? The manufacturers have data on how various ammunition performs with each gun, so this is hardly Einstein learning truths about the cosmos, my friend. As for ducks vs. deer, sure, but hunting is down to around 15% of the population, so less than half the gun owners even hunt anything, and I don’t think there are 10 types of game different enough to require a different gun for each. Regardless, I don’t think you need an AR-15 for any type of game in this country and a magazine of 30 rounds or more? If you need 30 shots to kill a deer, you ought to stick with golf.
Look, the bottom line is that if you say that there are no weapons that can be banned, then why can’t I have an RPG and a launcher or even a nuke.
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We understand that not every gun owner is a slaughter-crazed macho man. We just don’t give a shit anymore. We don’t give a shit about them. We don’t give a shit about their dumbass, dangerous hobby. We don’t give a shit because the ones who aren’t slaughter-crazed macho men spent thirty years spurning every effort to reach consensus on any kind of reasonable limits. They’ve spent the last thirty years aligning themselves politically with the lunatics who were pointing guns at federal agents trying to enforce grazing laws and the monsters who showed up to brandish their assault rifles at children protesting the slaughter of children.
Me personally, I ceased giving a rat’s ass about the responsible gun owners or their very rational, reasonable need for a dozen or so guns when they stood silent, or actively stood against, reasonable gun control measures in the wake of the murder of Christina-Taylor Green, age 9, born on September 11, 2001. A little girl just elected to her elementary school counsel, who had become excited about politics and government and so went on a trip to see her Congresswoman, Gabby Giffords with family friends and never came home.
The bottom of my bucket of fucks to give about the responsible sportsmen and hobbyists and their urgent need to own a dozen guns lest there be a single creature they were legally allowed to kill for whom they lacked the perfect weapon, was completely and irreparably punched out when they were unmoved to support even a limit on selling assault rifles to crazy people in the wake of twenty first graders slaughtered, some almost torn in half, by AR-15 fire, along with half a dozen adults who died in a futile attempt to shelter them from death with their own bodies.
The “reasonable” gun owners had their chances. They had their chance to stand up to the NRA and the “slaughter-crazed macho men.” Instead they chose to stand in the blood of children and voted Republican lest someone force them to, oh inconceivable horror of horrors, undergo the kind of training and testing we require to let people drive.
They aligned with the NRA when it counted, at the ballot box and with their money. And so now the majority who’s had it with them, and with trying to have any reasonable dialog with them, is going to outvote them and then make the rules and impose them. And then, when we do that and the world doesn’t end and we somehow manage to remain a democracy even without letting a tiny minority wave their artificial penile extenders in public, we can find out whether they still want to keep wearing that “I’m With the Monster!” T-shirt to the range.
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I couldn’t possibly say it better than @ncsteve.
I will add that I grew up with rifles, shotguns, and pistols. I hunted small game, did target practice, and was an excellent shot, if I do say so myself. I even went to a couple pin shoots and a cowboy action with my dad. I don’t own a gun now, not because I’m scared of them, but because I don’t need one, and they’re dangerous. As I like to say, every gun owner is responsible until the day they aren’t. And on that day, someone’s life is ended or changed forever.
Regardless, I’m with @ncsteve, now. After Sandy Hook, I stopped giving a fuck about gun owners and their precious hobbies, interests, and rights. You are all drenched in the blood of children and I couldn’t care less what happens to you. I will work to bring down the NRA, vote all pro-gun legislators out of office, and end your reign of terror on my country once and for all.
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You were right, the excoriation occurred. 
Seems like a very popular word lately.
I like your logic, (shoes, golf clubs, and various kinds of hunting) and appreciate that you posted.
As many who have farming/rural roots, I grew up with guns to a degree (target shooting as a kid) Then eventually a career in the Fortune 500.
– I have owned an AR-15 which I purchased specifically to eradicate feral hogs on a ranch were I was living at the time, now I no longer have it. I have a pistol, I use it to dispatch varmints that threaten my livestock, Even killing off these predators isn’t something i like – but sometimes it is needed.
IMO very few of us need military-style weapons. Last summer I killed a very venomous rattlesnake with my handy-dandy pistol. If you have ever used a shovel or garden hoe to kill a snake - you may know that it isn’t easy, and it riles the snake. If the alternative is the risk for me and mine, it is something I won’t take. If you face a rabid, or threatening, or dangerous animal IMO it is best to dispatch it.
So a gun collector, or a target shooter, or a hunter is a different type of gun owner than a person who is trying to compensate for an inability to function or a brain consumed by fear. In the last categories, I consider the man who went to free the kids in the pizza place in DC, and the sad guys who walk around city streets with AR-15’s strapped to their bodies AS if they are in a military action.
Interestingly while composing this post, I was going to say that I have met and talked with George Koumbis and purchased his book to improve my own shooting. His book is “Advanced Pistol Shooting”. For some reason I thought that George had won an olympic medal - but didn’t search too long. The olympics have events, as I understand it, for rifle, pistol & shot gun.
Then imagine my shock when I see his online obituary because he was shot to death in an armed robbery in his gun store in Corpus Christi. – Jaw dropping.
When will we lall earn – as much as those of us on the “other side” – say we are open-minded and logical, to listen to both sides, even if we disagree? Driving a wedge deeper and deeper into the divide is going to be good for the country. A logical approach is needed now, for common sense regulations. Simply put, we need some regulation in the “well regulated militia”. Our dialog needs to recognize that our problem is the misuse of firearms, and the corruption of NRA money to defy the will of the majority of people.
Here comes this weird insistence by Gun Nuts that we should care about their crimson hobby.
I don’t get it. One of my nephews collects stamps. I have yet to run into a Gun Nut who cares about his hobby. Why should we care about THEIRS?
How can the replies to his comment in any way be considered excoriation?
@misterneutron asked how we are supposed to discern between a good guy and a bad guy with a gun. There’s no way I can think of except to wait until the latter starts shooting. And then it’s too late.
@ord_avg_guy pointed out that he’s a liberal gun owner, a fact that debunks the original premise. (It probably just weakens the original premise, but I’ll leave that open to debate.)
@causeforconcern suggests a parallel between the “science” of powder loads and that of meth manufacturing and bomb making. Rather humorous, actually.
@an_american attempts to bend the original argument into an admission that “the only guns that should be legally allowed are collectors items…” I don’t quite get his logic, but I don’t see anything that rises to the level of “excoriation.”
@radicalcentrist points out that all the powder load science has long been done and is available to anyone who wants to find it. He makes some valid points about the number of guns needed for hunting - we don’t hunt anything as large as bison here so, your game really ranges from birds (various loads of shot), rabbits/squirrels (.22), up to deer (hunters have their favorite method). All-in-all, you really don’t need many guns to be an American hunter.
@ncsteve makes the argument that many of us on the left are thinking: after Sandy Hook, the NRA and the majority of gun owners fought any reasonable regulation to stop these things from happening. Because of the owners’ refusal to budge after the slaughter of children, we on the left realized that NOTHING is more precious to them than their guns. It’s an obvious red line.
And then I agreed with @ncsteve, and pointed out that I have a long history with guns.
Please explain where you see excoriation.
[Edited for typos.]
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I’m amused by the thought of suggesting to gun owners that anyone who wants to purchase a weapon should be willing to submit to a full psych workup, and agree to accept its conclusions. Short of that, nothing will weed out the truly dangerous (and even that approach would be less than comprehensive - some of these mass shooters seem fairly normal until they go off). I’m sure the gun defenders would eagerly accept that condition. Yeah, sure they would. 
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I just wanted to comment on the logic I used.
I responded to a post outlining reasons people buy guns: collectors, people who like to load their own ammunition, and hunters. For those purposes, all you would really need to preserve are collectors items for the collectors, and shotguns and bolt-action rifles for the hunters, and then people who like to load their own ammunition should be fine with those gun choices.
The unspoken part is this: we don’t need all these different types of guns if all you want are antiques and hunting equipment (and home defense, which is generally considered best with a shotgun). You don’t need a hand gun, don’t need a submachine gun, and definitely don’t need an assault rifle.
I don’t think this is bending the original argument so much as directly responding to it. But doing so highlights that it’s not so much that gun lovers want guns for these particular things, as much as they just fucking love guns to (the) death(s of young kids). Unfair to phrase it in such a manner? Of course not, because one side is talking about kids dying, and the other side is talking about how much they love their guns.
That makes sense. Like I said, I didn’t get your logic, but I tend to be a lazy thinker. Thanks for the more detailed clarification.
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